Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2

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The Germans are a little better too. IIRC about a hundred thousand or so fewer men were lost ITTL as opposed to OTL when the Axis surrendered in North Africa. Coupled with less defeats (Stalingrad is drastically different here for example, a German withdraw as opposed to a surrender) on the Eastern Front and Germany will be a tougher nut to crack when ITTL's Overlord happens.

Don't get me wrong, the WAllies are still going to win and win convincingly but Germany is in a better position in terms of manpower/supplies as well.

I would disagree with that, Germany being in a better state, in terms of bodies yes but with the Western Allies doing better, Germany's resource crunch is as acute and getting worse faster. Nothing is letting them get access to resources they did not have in OTL but on the Western Front, they appear to be losing the Naval and Air wars at a quicker rate. On the Eastern Front, they have lost less men but that actually makes the logistics problems worse, so its probably a wash ( more men and guns , less fuel/food and possibly ammunition )
 
I would disagree with that, Germany being in a better state, in terms of bodies yes but with the Western Allies doing better, Germany's resource crunch is as acute and getting worse faster. Nothing is letting them get access to resources they did not have in OTL but on the Western Front, they appear to be losing the Naval and Air wars at a quicker rate. On the Eastern Front, they have lost less men but that actually makes the logistics problems worse, so its probably a wash ( more men and guns , less fuel/food and possibly ammunition )

The Air war is likely to be worse for Germany - the Battle of the Atlantic - if not already won is likely to be won sooner than May 43 and this all means that far more 'stuff' is reaching the UK at far less overall cost - and with Tirpitz sunk Jan 42 in TTL the Arctic convoys are far less threatened. I do not think that PQ17 even gets a mention?
 
FDR's fateful decision on naval construction let to significant alterations to all these French, Polish, Greek etc "Free" military forces. Basically, when compared to OTL, one could find more manpower in every European Allied army.

a) French: The Free French started basically with 2 divisions from scratch. That's a considerable difference to the OTL ~3000 French soldiers that followed de Gaulle in summer 1940. With no Mers El Gebir, the relations between French and British never reached the OTL quasi-war.

There was no need for a Dakar or Syria/Lebannon operation. That improves no just the relationship between French and British but also the one of former Vichy and Free French. What was basically a civil war has been pretty much avoided. So, while political problems will arise, they may be somewhat less extreme in TTL. Furthermore, the break-out of part of the French Fleet out of Toulon holds valuable symbolic value: It shows the french will and resolution and can pay dividends in the minds of the AngloSaxon elite. The shocking defeat of 1940 made a lasting impression on Americans and British alike. A better opinion of France can make the Americans less reluctant to entertain the French demands regarding materiel.

At this point, the French have the 4th biggest Allied army. As mentioned before, there is a core of 2 "white" French divisions since 1940. Also, 45,000 colonial troops in Syria were not disbanded. Even the Madagascar garrison is intact at this point. It goes without saying that North and Western Africa will provide the majority of troops. Last but not least, Tunisia has been secured months earlier.

In OTL the French planned to have 7 Infantry and 4 Armoured Divisions by the beginning of 1944. They managed to re-equip and re-train 5 Infantry and 3 Armoured instead. ITTL with all the conditions mentioned above, it makes sense that they will be able to field 11 Divisions by the end of 1943. In any case, they have more political capital, less toxic relationship both with the AngloSaxons and among themselves and more manpower (including "white" troops to draw NCOs, officers and technical personnel). When this situation is viewed along with a more succesful Battle of the Atlantic, it is possible to see a quite a bit stronger Free France in the coming months.

When Corsica is liberated, another division can be raised as well.

Almost forgot that 2 BCs and about half a dozen cruisers that were lost in Toulon, grace with their presence Mers El Gebir.


b) Polish: IOTL at least 13,000 Polish soldiers were interned in Switzerland and (I think) at least 16,000 captured. However, in TTL, the Polish Army of about 4 divisions (excluding a couple of brigades out of metropolitan France) was evacuated to Britain. At this point , in early 1943, the Polish Forces will have Anders' Army as well, the 75,000 POWs released by the Soviets. In total, the Polish Army can grow easily to about 7-8 divisions. The only bottleneck will be officers and technical personnel.

c) Greeks: the Greek goverment has at least 2 divisions ( I m not sure if a 3rd was formed or not), instead of basically 1 brigade.

d) Belgians: A full corps of - if I remember correctly 60,000 men- has been evacuated to Britain.

e) Norwegians: A full division of 4 brigades instead of roughly 1 brigade.

g) Dutch: Oh we know about those, they are in Java and Celebes now...

In general, the Allies are in much better position. In total there are perhaps a couple hundred thousand trained soldiers more than OTL. It goes without saying that all these minor forces depend upon American and British equipment and support, but they can play a vital role until the flood of American divisions in 1944.

Did/does Stalin let the captured Poles leave or have they been forced into the Red Army?
 
At about this time German forces became aware of mass graves in the Katyn area. The find will probably be exploited in much the same manner ITTL, though the butterflies may differ.

That all depends on if Sikorsky still dies ITTL. Maybe there’s no reason for him to be in Gibraltar, so that plane flight doesn’t occur like OTL.
Now that’s a big butterfly, especially if the WAllies end the war in or close to Poland.
 

formion

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Did/does Stalin let the captured Poles leave or have they been forced into the Red Army?

They are not politically reliant and while in 1942 USSR had millions of men, their need for Lend-Lease was paramount. Judging by the lack of a specific mention by the author, I would guess that the release of Polish POWs was the same or similar to OTL.
 
They are not politically reliant and while in 1942 USSR had millions of men, their need for Lend-Lease was paramount. Judging by the lack of a specific mention by the author, I would guess that the release of Polish POWs was the same or similar to OTL.
Their release has been obliquely mentioned several times
 
Regarding Greek politics, I think the King will include in the goverment politicians of the old Liberal Party. He had to in OTL in Cairo and the fact that Cretans were fanatical Venizelists will be taken into account. This goverment will have a great deal more legitimacy with Crete free and with occupying the Dodecanese. Government-controlled resistance will be easily formed, with a nearby base to provide officers, equipment and gold. Officers like Sarafis and other Venizelists will hardly flock into EAM's embrace in such situation. So yes, I believe that the Greek Civil War will be butterflied.

I'm inclined to believe that the king is marginalized even further, probably all the way to the British putting him aside, even in OTL only Churchill and the increasing trouble with the communists stoppped this from happening and a referendum agreed for after liberation. Both for government and the resistance proximity of free Crete is bound to have effects, I mentioned earlier that spiriting away Sofoulis to Crete to lead the government seems logical and so is going forth with the proposals to have Theodore Pangalos escape to lead the free Greek army.

Sarafis TTL is at this point leading Venizelist resistance units in Thessaly probably, I doubt ELAS attacked him as in OTL or if they did that the operation had permanent results. At the very least both he and Psarros went to the mountains from months to a year ahead with aid coming in a more ready fashion from Crete.
 
c) Greeks: the Greek goverment has at least 2 divisions ( I m not sure if a 3rd was formed or not), instead of basically 1 brigade.

I'll stick to my post from here on the Greeks https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/keynes-cruisers.388788/page-408#post-16922067 I'd expect a third division is doable in the first half of 1943 with manpower from the Dodecanese and Crete and further escapees from the mainland. Perhaps expand the armoured brigade into an armoured division to keep manpower needs down?
 

formion

Banned
I'd expect a third division is doable in the first half of 1943 with manpower from the Dodecanese and Crete and further escapees from the mainland. Perhaps expand the armoured brigade into an armoured division to keep manpower needs down?

I'd second Lascaris' post. Indeed, if 50,000 Greek escaped in 1941 to Crete there is more than enough manpower for 3 divisions. Added to these, will be the Evros Brigade of about 2,300 men that escaped though Turkey in OTL and the various volunteers from Greek expat communities. IOTL just the Greek community in Egypt provided a whole battalion of volunteers. The liberated Dodecanese can provide manpower for another regiment (3 battalions). Escapees from Greece could use the old Greek submarines that were better utilized in unloading rifles and sten guns in mainland and loading volunteers, especially officers, artillery specialists etc. After all, the greek coastline hosts thousands of small coves, difficult to patrol, as WW2 showed.

Lastly, the OTL plans called for the formation of 3 local territorial battalions in Crete of a total 3,150 men from older classes. IOTL there was little time and equipment to be spared for them. ITTL they can be formed and utilized in the defence of the island.

So, in general, lascaris's assessment of the doability of a 3rd Greek division is absolutely correct. An armored one offers both political and operational advantages as well.
 
So one thing I'm wondering concerning US forces in Europe ITTL.

Due to the multitude of butterflies that have occured, will Lieutenant General Frank Maxwell Andrews be able to avoid the plane crash in Iceland on May 3rd, 1943 that killed him, Brigadier General Charles M Barth, the plane crew and a number of Andrews' staff?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Maxwell_Andrews#Death

He was originally given command of all US forces throughout the European theater at the Casablanca Conference in January 1943, but his untimely death is what ultimately resulted in Eisenhower getting the job in the end.

While we're on the subject of plane crashes, any possibilities of butterflies with regards to the July 1943 B-24 crash in Gibraltar that killed Polish General and Prime Minister Władysław Sikorski ? His death along with that of several other key Polish officers was a major blow to the Polish government in exile.

If the Polish government in exile in Britain can avoid this tragedy, and given the Soviets doing somewhat worse ITTL, perhaps they could get the Soviets to release other Polish forces within the Soviet Union. Even after Anders Army was released from the Soviet Union and transferred to the west, there where still enough Polish POWs and exiled Poles in the Soviet Union that the Soviets where able to form a field army of Polish forces on the Eastern Front.

I could still see some Poles either being kept in Soviet custody and possibly killed, or otherwise supporting the Soviets, but if the US and British can get even another brigade or two worth of Poles away from Stalin, it couldn't hurt. Most of them would still probably never be able to return to Poland after the war if the country is swallowed up by the Soviet advance, but if the western Allies can get an extra 10 or 20 thousands Poles in their hands, that's less that the Soviets can use going into the Cold War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Polish_Army_(1944–1945)#Organization
 
This is only temporary neglect as I have been bitten by a bug to tell a short story in a different forum and just closed on a new house today.
 
Demobilization of child soldiers in the Potterverse...
The-play-which-shall-not-be-named* does at least make some effort to address how potentially messed up at least the play universe's version of some of the Gryffindor child-soldiers might be even two decades on. Not that it goes in for deep and meaningful analysis, but it does at least acknowledge that there should be issues.

* If you insist on specific identification:
Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.
 
The-play-which-shall-not-be-named* does at least make some effort to address how potentially messed up at least the play universe's version of some of the Gryffindor child-soldiers might be even two decades on. Not that it goes in for deep and meaningful analysis, but it does at least acknowledge that there should be issues.

* If you insist on specific identification:
Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.
Yeah, being in combat from age 11 to 17 should be a life assumption forming event.

In the Play that should not be named, I am shocked at Hermione being the Minister of Magic for three reasons:

1) She is young
2) The Wizarding World is mostly at peace and she would be another MoM that comes out of the combat arm of the MoM after Shacklebolt
3) she is a bit too ruthless for a peacetime ministry ( as a single combat warrior/ commando she gets shit done, as someone who has to win the peace, I am scared of her decision hierarchy. )
 
Story 1872
Moscow, January 18, 1943

The most recent train from Vladivostok slowed. Workers tucked their caps and their scarves tight while pulling wool and fur gloves over their fingers. The cold wind blew. It penetrated their clothes like the stare of a desperate woman could penetrate their souls. Eighty cars needed to be unloaded. Twenty were packed full of rubber and aluminum. The aircraft plant at MAPO would eat the entire material load in a few days producing flying tanks. Other cars had powdered milk and canned pork and beans. Infantrymen would get the meat while children were allocated the milk. More cars had radios and jeeps and highly refined aviation gasoline. Somehow the supply to America was staying open as Japan would not interfere with the Soviet flagged, American built freighters carrying the bounty of the American west coast to the Eastern Front.
 
Story 1873
Near Ithaca, Greece January 18, 1943


The Greek submarine Triton broke through the waves. Within seconds, look-outs were scrambling for a perch. A minute later, two rubber dinghies were being inflated. Within fifteen minutes, six commandos were in each boat. Each man was heavily laden with weapons and gear. Crates were placed in between the three pairs of paddlers. Soon they were heading ashore to rendezvous with other scouts and saboteurs. A seaplane patrol base would soon be visited and mischief would be wreaked. Until then Triton would descend under the sea until rescues were needed.
 
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