Kentucky Fried Politics: A Colonel Sanders Timeline

[gap80]

So, just curious about something. Since guys like Wellstone and Litton avoided plane crashes that killed them IOTL here, what happened to some other politicians that ended up dying in accidents like that.

John Heinz, John Tower, George Speaker Mickelson, Ted Stevens, Mel Carnahan, and Larkin Smith all come to mind.

John Heinz – mentioned in Chapter 49 as besting former Second Lady of the US Mary Scranton for the GOP nomination for a US Senate seat in 1976. Lost that November’s race in a narrow upset, and later elected back to the Senate (I think I wrote down his name instead of Bud Shuster’s for Chapter 55’s description of potential impeachment votes, sorry about that, I’ve been meaning to fix that…). Anyway, he later supported his son, the typically shy H. John Heinz III, running for US Senate in 2006; the son served from 2007 to 2019, as noted in the US Senators index chapter.

John Tower – Also mentioned in the US Senators index chapter.

George Mickelson – Mentioned in the US Governors index chapter.

Ted Stevens – Mentioned in the US Senators index chapter as well.

Mel Carnahan – Mentioned in the US Governors index chapter (he didn’t die in a plane crash because he wasn’t running for the US Senate because he couldn’t because the popular incumbent Democrat, Alan Wheat, was running for a second term that year). He ultimately lost a bid for his party’s nomination for a US Senate seat in 2004 to Wayne Cryts.

Larkin Smith – Mentioned in the “Alternate White Houses” index chapter as serving as the US Secretary of Labor from 1995 to 2001, under President Larry Miles Dinger, where he “expanded minimum wage and federal unemployment benefits to cover more workers.” Due to this action being criticized by his fellow conservatives, he later lost a bid for the GOP nomination for Governor and for a US House seat (twice), then retired from politics.

This timeline has commanded my undivided attention for many entertaining and educational weeks. As a lifelong and avid consumer of KFC, seeing the Colonel flourish as statesman and humanitarian has been nothing short of delightful.

Something I have to wonder about, though, and which does not appear to have been given much attention (if at all), is how Taiwan ended up faring politically, economically and socially in this scenario after the Colonel was forced to favour China over it in the name of pragmatism. How things unfolded domestically for the nation, along with what alliances it might have made absent American support. Would be much obliged if these blanks were filled in for someone eager to know; thank you so much in advance.

The Colonel “abandoning” Taiwan soured Taiwan-US relations for many years, with relations only cooling in the 1980s, after the end of the Cold War led to US businessmen becoming more willing to invest in Taiwanese companies. The country adopted Universal Healthcare, joined the WTO, and signed onto the United Nations Framework Convention on Global Climate Disruption during the 1990s. It was also at the forefront of efforts to combat the spreading of SARS in 2001 and 2002. Tapei 101 is currently the 11th tallest building in the world. Taiwan’s Presidents are listed in the World leaders index chapters:

1948-1975: 1) Chiang Kai-shek (Kuomintang) – died in office amid the PRC’s Civil War between rival factions within the country’s reigning communist party; his reign was similar to OTL's

1975-1978: 2) Yen Chia-kan (Kuomintang) – considered invading the PRC during its Civil War of 1975; retired; his reign was also similar to OTL's

1978-1988: 3) Chiang Ching-kuo (Kuomintang) – sought to "quietly" strengthen diplomatic relations with western European nations after the economy went belly-up in the late 1970s but also strengthened ties to Japan and Vietnam, which upset the PRC; died in office like in OTL

1988-2000: 4) Lee Teng-hui (Kuomintang) – implemented free elections in 1995; supported the US ahead of the Second Korean War breaking out; won the 1996 election in a landslide as it occurred two days after the Second Korean War officially ended; retired at the age of 77 due to declining health; left office with high approval ratings

2000-2008: 5) Peng Ming-min (Democratic Progressive) – entered office at the age of 76; allied nation with Australia and Indonesia; was praised for his handling of the SARS pandemic; term-limited

2008-2012: 6) You Ching (Democratic Progressive) – entered office at the age of 66 after serving as VP from 2000 to 2008; supported many of his predecessor's policies; expanded government services; his brother You Hung served in the national legislature from 1993 to 2013; lost re-election and was praised for not attempting a self-coup, as many Fung supporters had been expecting due to Fung painting him as an "extremist."

2012-2020: 7) Elmer Fung (Kuomintang) – expanded the country's military and scaled back government services; term-limited; left office with poor approval ratings amid sexual pestering accusations, which are still being investigated.

2020-present: 8) Lin Ting-chun (Democratic Progressive) – first female President; daughter of former Presidential candidate Lin Yi-hsiung; her twin sister Liang-chun serves in the national legislature; maintains strong diplomatic and economical relations with many nations, but especially Australia, Japan, Korea, and Canada; incumbent

 

[MNM041]

Elmer Fung

I assume he has spent his retirement hunting wabbits.

 

[Sekhmet_D]

1975-1978: 2) Yen Chia-kan (Kuomintang) – considered invading the PRC during its Civil War of 1975

Now THIS raises my eyebrows. I wonder how feasible such a move might have been, what success or failure it might have met with amidst the turmoil taking place in China at the time. Maybe some creative writer could do a spin-off that explores this. Much obliged for the response; it fills in a huge blank and answers all my questions very nicely. Finding 'economic refuge' with Europe, Japan and Australia would indeed have been the way to go for Taiwan to survive.

 

[MNM041]

Pure curiosity that I noticed that Wellstone ITTL, was the Attorney General of Minnesota.

Paul Wellstone wasn't a lawyer, he was an academic, who's last job before becoming a senator was working as a professor for Carleton College, so I'm kind of curious as to what led to him having this different career path.

 

[TheDetailer]

John Heinz – mentioned in Chapter 49 as besting former Second Lady of the US Mary Scranton for the GOP nomination for a US Senate seat in 1976. Lost that November’s race in a narrow upset, and later elected back to the Senate (I think I wrote down his name instead of Bud Shuster’s for Chapter 55’s description of potential impeachment votes, sorry about that, I’ve been meaning to fix that…). Anyway, he later supported his son, the typically shy H. John Heinz III, running for US Senate in 2006; the son served from 2007 to 2019, as noted in the US Senators index chapter.

John Tower – Also mentioned in the US Senators index chapter.

George Mickelson – Mentioned in the US Governors index chapter.

Ted Stevens – Mentioned in the US Senators index chapter as well.

Mel Carnahan – Mentioned in the US Governors index chapter (he didn’t die in a plane crash because he wasn’t running for the US Senate because he couldn’t because the popular incumbent Democrat, Alan Wheat, was running for a second term that year). He ultimately lost a bid for his party’s nomination for a US Senate seat in 2004 to Wayne Cryts.

Larkin Smith – Mentioned in the “Alternate White Houses” index chapter as serving as the US Secretary of Labor from 1995 to 2001, under President Larry Miles Dinger, where he “expanded minimum wage and federal unemployment benefits to cover more workers.” Due to this action being criticized by his fellow conservatives, he later lost a bid for the GOP nomination for Governor and for a US House seat (twice), then retired from politics.


The Colonel “abandoning” Taiwan soured Taiwan-US relations for many years, with relations only cooling in the 1980s, after the end of the Cold War led to US businessmen becoming more willing to invest in Taiwanese companies. The country adopted Universal Healthcare, joined the WTO, and signed onto the United Nations Framework Convention on Global Climate Disruption during the 1990s. It was also at the forefront of efforts to combat the spreading of SARS in 2001 and 2002. Tapei 101 is currently the 11th tallest building in the world. Taiwan’s Presidents are listed in the World leaders index chapters:

1948-1975: 1) Chiang Kai-shek (Kuomintang) – died in office amid the PRC’s Civil War between rival factions within the country’s reigning communist party; his reign was similar to OTL's

1975-1978: 2) Yen Chia-kan (Kuomintang) – considered invading the PRC during its Civil War of 1975; retired; his reign was also similar to OTL's

1978-1988: 3) Chiang Ching-kuo (Kuomintang) – sought to "quietly" strengthen diplomatic relations with western European nations after the economy went belly-up in the late 1970s but also strengthened ties to Japan and Vietnam, which upset the PRC; died in office like in OTL

1988-2000: 4) Lee Teng-hui (Kuomintang) – implemented free elections in 1995; supported the US ahead of the Second Korean War breaking out; won the 1996 election in a landslide as it occurred two days after the Second Korean War officially ended; retired at the age of 77 due to declining health; left office with high approval ratings

2000-2008: 5) Peng Ming-min (Democratic Progressive) – entered office at the age of 76; allied nation with Australia and Indonesia; was praised for his handling of the SARS pandemic; term-limited

2008-2012: 6) You Ching (Democratic Progressive) – entered office at the age of 66 after serving as VP from 2000 to 2008; supported many of his predecessor's policies; expanded government services; his brother You Hung served in the national legislature from 1993 to 2013; lost re-election and was praised for not attempting a self-coup, as many Fung supporters had been expecting due to Fung painting him as an "extremist."

2012-2020: 7) Elmer Fung (Kuomintang) – expanded the country's military and scaled back government services; term-limited; left office with poor approval ratings amid sexual pestering accusations, which are still being investigated.

2020-present: 8) Lin Ting-chun (Democratic Progressive) – first female President; daughter of former Presidential candidate Lin Yi-hsiung; her twin sister Liang-chun serves in the national legislature; maintains strong diplomatic and economical relations with many nations, but especially Australia, Japan, Korea, and Canada; incumbent

Nice stuff.

 

[TGW]

Purely out of interest, but as you mentioned the successors to Bob Dole and Foster Friess in your pictures thread, have you any particular idea as to successors for Orrin Hatch? Just curious as he was one of the two longest serving legislators (Congrats to Mondragon for gaining that undisputed title) and I've got nothing better to wonder about. (I expect that given the lengthier lives Presidents/Vice Presidents enjoy, Gravel will serve out his final term before he passes).

Also, I'm not sure if you answered this already (And if you have, sorry, I get that it's frustrating to have the same questions over and over again) but what happened to Trent Lott and Jesse Helms?

 

[nbcman]

Jesse Helms was mentioned in 15 posts by the Author. Did you try searching?

 

[TGW]

Jesse Helms was mentioned in 15 posts by the Author. Did you try searching?

Nope because like the goddamn fool I am I forgot that this is indeed a thing that you can do on this forum! (Not angry at you, to be clear, pissed off at myself)

Trent Lott - served as a US Congressman from 1973 to 2013. He tried to become House Speaker or at least House Minority Leader several times but never got either post, his career peaking at Majority Whip during the 1980s. Being on the losing side of the GOP-led House's internal feuds during the 1990s certainly didn't help.

Thanks for that, once again, would not have bothered you if I'd been thinking properly.

 

[MNM041]

In May 1969, Wellstone earned a Ph.D. in political science from the University of North Carolina. ITTL, the sexual pestering scandals of 1970 and the urging of his wife Sheila convinced him to also go for a law degree, which he finally obtained in 1973 while teaching at Carleton College, which led to him also teaching law as well as political science.

Ah, I see thank you.

 

[Tallman310]

@gap80 What's the Democracy Index for the United States ITTL? I would imagine due to the Fairness Doctrine and Ranked Choice voting, the US would be much higher on the list, perhaps even close to a 9. In OTL 2021 the US got a ranking of 7.85 which makes it a flawed democracy.

IMO I'd put the US closer to 7 due to right-wing extremism and the fact that far-right militants attempted to storm the Capitol Building when their "savior" lost an election. An action that would be virtually unthinkable to Americans ITTL.

The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, how the heck did a Balanced Budget Amendment get past the liberals when its text made it clear that it was nothing more than a fiscal conservative power grab? IOTL it didn't get past the Dems and I don't see how it'd get past them here.

 

[MNM041]

Since she ended up getting John F. Kennedy's seat in the Senate, I am curious, do the Special Olympics still exist? And if so, does Eunice Kennedy Shriver still have ties to it?

 

[gap80]

Pure curiosity that I noticed that Wellstone ITTL, was the Attorney General of Minnesota.

Paul Wellstone wasn't a lawyer, he was an academic, who's last job before becoming a senator was working as a professor for Carleton College, so I'm kind of curious as to what led to him having this different career path.

In May 1969, Wellstone earned a Ph.D. in political science from the University of North Carolina. ITTL, the sexual pestering scandals of 1970 and the urging of his wife Sheila convinced him to also go for a law degree, which he finally obtained in 1973 while teaching at Carleton College, which led to him also teaching law as well as political science.

Nice stuff.

Thanks!

Purely out of interest, but as you mentioned the successors to Bob Dole and Foster Friess in your pictures thread, have you any particular idea as to successors for Orrin Hatch? Just curious as he was one of the two longest serving legislators (Congrats to Mondragon for gaining that undisputed title) and I've got nothing better to wonder about. (I expect that given the lengthier lives Presidents/Vice Presidents enjoy, Gravel will serve out his final term before he passes).

Also, I'm not sure if you answered this already (And if you have, sorry, I get that it's frustrating to have the same questions over and over again) but what happened to Trent Lott and Jesse Helms?

I'm not sure who succeeds Hatch; I hadn't given it much thought, to be honest. Maybe his widow Elaine Hansen Hatch until a special election is held, then someone younger like Theresa Thibodeau?
Yeah, I suppose Gravel passes away shortly after finishing his 2017-2023 term.
Trent Lott - served as a US Congressman from 1973 to 2013. He tried to become House Speaker or at least House Minority Leader several times but never got either post, his career peaking at Majority Whip during the 1980s. Being on the losing side of the GOP-led House's internal feuds during the 1990s certainly didn't help.
Jesse Helms - White House Counsel to President Denton investigated for lying to the FBI about the extent of Denton's involvement in the Buz Lukens Scandal. Ran for public office several times but never won (he lost in 1972 because it was a good year for Democrats, he lost in 1980 in an upset, etc.) Suffered a heart attack upon the election of Jesse Jackson to the Presidency.

Jesse Helms was mentioned in 15 posts by the Author. Did you try searching?

👍

Sorry for the delayed replies, I was kind of busy this week.

@gap80 What's the Democracy Index for the United States ITTL? I would imagine due to the Fairness Doctrine and Ranked Choice voting, the US would be much higher on the list, perhaps even close to a 9. In OTL 2021 the US got a ranking of 7.85 which makes it a flawed democracy.

IMO I'd put the US closer to 7 due to right-wing extremism and the fact that far-right militants attempted to storm the Capitol Building when their "savior" lost an election. An action that would be virtually unthinkable to Americans ITTL.

The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US’s DI ranking (Overall Score) is somewhere around 8.5 or so, between 15th and 19th place on the list. For the “electoral process and pluralism” category, the ratification of the National Initiative Amendment led to the US’s DI ranking rising to 9.5 or so, closer to OTL’s France score of 9.6 than the US’s OTL ranking of 9.2-ish. In the “functioning of government” category, TTL’s US is at around 7.6, pretty low but still higher than the US’s 6.4 score IOTL. In “political participation,” the US ranks in at 9.0, slightly higher than OTL’s 8.9 due to higher voter turnout ITTL. The US is definitely ranking higher in the “political culture” category ITTL, likely at around 7.5 (compare that to the OTL US’s 6.3 score). Finally, due to semi-successful police precinct reforms of the Jackson-Wellstone years, TTL’s US’s “civil liberties” score is 8.9 (compare that to the OTL US’s 8.5 score). However, some conservative US politicians dismiss the Democracy Index as biased, arguing that it favors “socialist policies over freedom.”

Also, how the heck did a Balanced Budget Amendment get past the liberals when its text made it clear that it was nothing more than a fiscal conservative power grab? IOTL it didn't get past the Dems and I don't see how it'd get past them here.

The 28th Amendment, the BBA, was passed by Republicans in control of congress in the mid-1980s, at the time when President Denton was highly popular and the pro-BBA GOP was joined by several fiscally conservative Democrats such as US Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL), so it was technically a bipartisan effort in reaction to the “wasteful spending” of the Mondale administration and encouraged by Denton tax cuts in the early 1980s being credited with the economic prosperity in 1984. Ratifying the BBA slowed in 1986 and 1987 but gathered momentum among GOP-controlled state legislatures in 1988 and 1989. It was finally ratified by several more state legislatures in late 1990 as part of the conservative backlash to Universal Healthcare being passed by Democratic majorities in Congress earlier in that year; as mentioned in Chapters 61 and 62, North Carolina became the 38th state to approve it in November 1990.

Since she ended up getting John F. Kennedy's seat in the Senate, I am curious, do the Special Olympics still exist? And if so, does Eunice Kennedy Shriver still have ties to it?

Yes, Eunice used her position as a US Senator to support her relatives and allies co-creating the Special Olympics in the late 1960s, a few years earlier than IOTL. I mentioned Elizabeth Joan Steinbrenner serving as a Special Olympics Board Chairperson before becoming President Iacocca’s SBA Administrator in Chapter 67. Eunice was an active supporter of it but her position as a federal office holder prohibited her from holding significant financial ties to the organization.

You would think at some point in the future a National Initiative (or less likely a second constitutional amendment) would get rid of the BBA as it's nothing short of a terrible idea, but who knows, perhaps Homo Americanus doesn't get its head around the fact that the federal budget doesn't operate like a personal checking account.

Also @gap80, during the Jackson presidency I think it was implied that his new VRA abolished felony restrictions, but during the Grammar presidency it was said how the Republican-led congress passed a bill loosening felony restrictions (which shows that the GOP is a radically different beast in ATL 2010s). Is this a plot hole or did I misunderstand the story?

Edit: A 2011 CNN poll indicated that 74 percent of Americans supported a Balanced Budget Amendment, so it's unlikely that they'd support repealing it due to the fact that it hasn't resulted in utter economic disaster.

If I recall it right, the "VRA" abolished nearly all felony restrictions and the Grammer-era bill loosened the remaining ones.

 

[Kennedy Forever]

Sorry for the delayed reply, I was kind of busy this week.

The US’s DI ranking (Overall Score) is somewhere around 8.5 or so, between 15th and 19th place on the list. For the “electoral process and pluralism” category, the ratification of the National Initiative Amendment led to the US’s DI ranking rising to 9.5 or so, closer to OTL’s France score of 9.6 than the US’s OTL ranking of 9.2-ish. In the “functioning of government” category, TTL’s US is at around 7.6, pretty low but still higher than the US’s 6.4 score IOTL. In “political participation,” the US ranks in at 9.0, slightly higher than OTL’s 8.9 due to higher voter turnout ITTL. The US is definitely ranking higher in the “political culture” category ITTL, likely at around 7.5 (compare that to the OTL US’s 6.3 score). Finally, due to semi-successful police precinct reforms of the Jackson-Wellstone years, TTL’s US’s “civil liberties” score is 8.9 (compare that to the OTL US’s 8.5 score). However, some conservative US politicians dismiss the Democracy Index as biased, arguing that it favors “socialist policies over freedom.”

The 28th Amendment, the BBA, was passed by Republicans in control of congress in the mid-1980s, at the time when President Denton was highly popular and the pro-BBA GOP was joined by several fiscally conservative Democrats such as US Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL), so it was technically a bipartisan effort in reaction to the “wasteful spending” of the Mondale administration and encouraged by Denton tax cuts in the early 1980s being credited with the economic prosperity in 1984. Ratifying the BBA slowed in 1986 and 1987 but gathered momentum among GOP-controlled state legislatures in 1988 and 1989. It was finally ratified by several more state legislatures in late 1990 as part of the conservative backlash to Universal Healthcare being passed by Democratic majorities in Congress earlier in that year; as mentioned in Chapters 61 and 62, North Carolina became the 38th state to approve it in November 1990.

Yes, Eunice used her position as a US Senator to support her relatives and allies co-creating the Special Olympics in the late 1960s, a few years earlier than IOTL. I mentioned Elizabeth Joan Steinbrenner serving as a Special Olympics Board Chairperson before becoming President Iacocca’s SBA Administrator in Chapter 67. Eunice was an active supporter of it but her position as a federal office holder prohibited her from holding significant financial ties to the organization.

Great answer. Makes sense that ITTL the Balanced Budget would be passed after America got universal healthcare.

 

[Tallman310]

Great answer. Makes sense that ITTL the Balanced Budget would be passed after America got universal healthcare.

You would think at some point in the future a National Initiative (or less likely a second constitutional amendment) would get rid of the BBA as it's nothing short of a terrible idea, but who knows, perhaps Homo Americanus doesn't get its head around the fact that the federal budget doesn't operate like a personal checking account.

Also @gap80, during the Jackson presidency I think it was implied that his new VRA abolished felony restrictions, but during the Grammar presidency it was said how the Republican-led congress passed a bill loosening felony restrictions (which shows that the GOP is a radically different beast in ATL 2010s). Is this a plot hole or did I misunderstand the story?

Edit: A 2011 CNN poll indicated that 74 percent of Americans supported a Balanced Budget Amendment, so it's unlikely that they'd support repealing it due to the fact that it hasn't resulted in utter economic disaster.

 

[Otakuninja2006]

This is interesting!

And @Igeo654, I saw some of your suggestions here in regards to Nickelodeon, and they are certainly intriguing!

 

[Tallman310]

@gap80 If a massive rift in the space-time continuum formed while I was sleeping in my apartment and ISOTed me to the Kentucky Fried Politics universe (presumably with my birth certificate, health insurance card, my collection of books, and social security card so people knew I wasn't insane or an imposter), what would I find different? How advanced is technology compared to OTL? Is the political culture of TTL's USA unrecognizable to an American from OTL?

I have an iPhone 11 and am typing this on a 2020 dell laptop. I have Barack Obama's A Promised Land in my collection.

 

[ILPD45]

On the subject of long-serving senators IOTL - what happened with Patrick Leahy? I don’t remember seeing any mention of him ITTL.

 

[Tallman310]

Technology being 8-10 years ahead of OTL would make for some interesting butterflies if I was ISOTed into the KFP universe. I would cheer on UHC for largely averting the massive growth in healthcare spending IOTL and not creating the Charlie-Foxtrot that is the US healthcare system IOTL. I would find it refreshing for the GOP to actually be a fusion of libertarianism and conservatism like it claims to be unlike the abomination of Christian white nationalism that it is IOTL. And of course, I would like for the world not to be on the brink of WWIII due to a conflict in Ukraine.

I would imagine that exceptionalism would be much higher than OTL due to America not getting bogged down in multi-trillion-dollar proxy wars in the 2000s and triumphing over North Korea, Libya, Cuba, and Vietnam. Cynicism would also be less prevalent in American politics.

I would imagine Breaking Bad and Orange is The New Black not existing due to both being based on problems that are largely handwaved away ITTL.

 

[Tallman310]

@gap80 I would like to know what happened to these people.
Bill Nye the Science Guy: Does he still make fun science videos that elementary school teachers use in substitution of actually teaching science? God, I loved his videos as a 2000s kid.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson
I know it was mentioned a little while back, but Ben Shapiro's fate hasn't been addressed. Perhaps include other figures of the OTL Intellectual Dark Web like Steven Crowder and Michael Knowles as well. A liberal or leftist Ben Shapiro would be a twist.
Gabe Newell: Does he still create Valve ITTL? Is there a company out there ITTL that effectively monopolizes the PC gaming market? Or is it thankfully more decentralized?

As an avid gamer, I'd like to see there be a "Kentucky-Fried Video Games" spinoff TL created, starting in the early 1980s and going into 2022. That might be wishful thinking, however, given how most people born 1980 and later IOTL don't exist in KFP or exist with a different mother/father. It could be guesswork.

Edit: What happened to Joe Rogan?

 

[GrandMaster]

What is the equivalent to TiVo in this timeline?