Kentucky Fried Politics: A Colonel Sanders Timeline

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Brky2020

Brky2020

Future baseball relocation/expansion candidates:

Buffalo -- interested in expansion

Denver -- interested in an AL (or NL) expansion team, or in relocation

Milwaukee -- trying to get the White Sox to move up north (not the North Side of Chicago, though)

Seattle -- actively pursuing an AL expansion team at this time

Tampa-St. Petersburg -- threw its hat in the expansion ring, despite not having a ballpark

Toronto -- rumored to be seeking the San Francisco Giants and an AL expansion team

Washington -- was in the running for an AL expansion team
 

AndyWho

BrianD said:
My two cents on the NBA entry:

IOTL, in 1975 pro basketball was still split into two leagues -- the National Basketball Association and the American Basketball Association. There was an agreement for a merger but IOTL it didn't happen until the 1976-77 season. In 1975 the Colonels won the ABA title.

If we take the entry at face value, they beat the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals. Golden State (Warriors) won the Western Conference. Assuming this is what @gap80 meant, then that means the two leagues merged earlier, at least by the 1974-75 season.

If that's the case, then let's have the ABA accept the four most financially solvent teams:

New York Nets

Denver Nuggets

San Antonio Spurs

and..

the Kentucky Colonels.

Realizing that each of the four teams would have to pay a $3 million entry fee to get into the NBA, and that Chicago Bulls ownership was lobbying hard to keep the Colonels out of any merger [1], they came up with a novel idea: they agreed to trade star center Artis Gilmore to the Bulls in exchange for the NBA rights to Moses Malone [2]. The league owners agreed, as did the Nets, Nuggets and Spurs -- the other six ABA teams were just playing out the string and waiting for their money [3]. Malone, a young center who came to the ABA out of high school, played for the Utah Stars in 1974. Stars owner Bill Daniels, seeing the writing on the wall [4], decided to throw in the towel and use his pro basketball money to fund a run for the governorship of Utah [5].

The 1974-75 NBA season opened with 22 teams:
EASTERN CONFERENCE
Atlantic Division
Boston Celtics
Buffalo Braves
New York Knicks
New York Nets [6]
Philadelphia 76ers
Washington Bullets
Central Division
Atlanta Hawks
Cleveland Cavaliers
Houston Rockets
Kentucky Colonels -- led by former University of Kentucky stars Dan Issel and Louie Dampier, center Moses Malone, and former Indiana Pacer George McGinnis, supplemented by Ted McClain, Maurice Lucas, Wendell Ladner and rookie Billy Knight
New Orleans Jazz

WESTERN CONFERENCE
Midwest Division
Chicago Bulls
Denver Nuggets [7]
Detroit Pistons
Kansas City-Omaha Kings
Milwaukee Bucks
San Antonio Spurs [8]

Pacific Division
Golden State Warriors
Los Angeles Lakers
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
Seattle SuperSonics

[1] the Bulls IOTL made it known because the Colonels had Artis Gilmore's contract, they would lobby to keep them out of any merger so they could sign him since they held his NBA rights.
[2] Malone was not selected in the NBA draft, as he had just finished high school. He signed with the Stars after being drafted in the third round of the ABA draft.
[3] The NBA Board of Governors made it known they would accept only four teams. San Diego was out because the Lakers didn't want the Conquistadors taking a share of the southern California market. The NBA wasn't interested in going to smaller cities where attendance was falling (Carolina, Memphis, Virginia). And the Pacers' ownership situation was best described as "fluid" in 73-74, which led to the remaining owners opting to take a buyout rather than challenge the Colonels for the fourth spot.
[4] Daniels did the same IOTL, after selling off his best players and seeing attendance dwindle.
[5] He also ran for Utah governor IOTL and lost. ITTL? Only @gap80 knows :)
[6] Having a future Hall of Famer on their roster (Julius Erving) helped get them into the league. But Erving, as in IOTL, would not stay...
[7] The Board of Governors liked Denver as a market much better than nearby Salt Lake City. But the ripple effect would wipe away the type of success they had IOTL, and the newly-renamed Nuggets would have to work to keep from being mentioned as a relocation canddiate to cities like Dallas, Indianapolis...and Salt Lake City.
[8] The Board of Governors liked the 10,000-plus average attendance at HemisFair Arena in the team's only ABA season after moving from Dallas.
Click to expand...

Please let there NOT be a relocation of the Jazz to Utah. I don't mind the Mormon state having a pro-basketball team, but Jazz?
 

DTF955Baseballfan

The Athletics were apparently taken from Findlay in 1967 or 68 when he sold them and bought the Colonels. So they do not have a very different history, and have most of the same players in 1971-4.

Now, I can't see where come 1975, you could have Charlie Finley do what Bill Veeck did in our timeline in 77 and get free agents like Reggie Jackson to go to Louisville for 1 season because he can't afford any more.

But, the Royals will definitely be challenging them and the White Sox may already be in Milwaukee, who knows.
Also, the Yankees finished second in 1974 in our timeline but had a very down year in 1975 despite getting Catfish Hunter. They then won three straight pennants in 1976 through 1978. So you were right, this was just a very bad year for them.
 
Brky2020

Brky2020

Then I'll rewrite the piece. There remains the need to come up with a lineup and pitching staff that could beat out three dominant teams (REd Sox, Orioles, Yankees) for a division title and another potential dynasty (Royals) for a pennant. Reggie Jackson's free agency year was '76, and I doubt he'd turn down New York. So Oakland would need to trade him in order for him to play anywhere else in '75.

Maybe I should go back and look at the drafts for '69-'74, take the best of the Brewers players (remember, no Seattle Pilots in '69, and no team to move to Milwaukee in '70) and have the team go on one heckuva lucky streak in the draft for five or six years.
 
Brky2020

Brky2020

(I posted this on the sports thread. Should've gone here)

Here's my Take 2 on the Louisville Colonels

LOUISVILLE COLONELS

1969 Manager: Joe Schultz

1968 EXPANSION DRAFT

Don Mincher, 1B, Angels

Tommy Harper, OF, Indians

Ray Oyler, SS, Tigers

Jerry McNertney, C, White Sox

Jack Billingham, P, Dodgers

Jesus Alou, OF, Giants

Diego Segui, P, Athletics

Tommy Davis, LF/3B, White Sox

Marty Pattin, P, Angels

Bill Stoneman, P, Cubs

Maury Wills, SS/3B, Pirates

Jack Aker, P, Athletics

Larry Stahl, 1B, Mets

Lou Pinella, LF, Indians

Dick Drago, P, Tigers

Jimy Williams, 2B, Reds

Mudcat Grant, P, Dodgers

Steve Barber, P, Yankees

Dave Roberts, P, Pirates

Wayne Comer, OF, Tigers

Moe Drabowsky, P, Orioles

Skip Lockwood, P, Athletics

Tom Burgmeier, P, Cardinals

Ernie McAnally, P, Mets

Mike Marshall, P, Tigers

Fran Healy, C, Indians

Mike Ferraro, 3B, Yankeees

John Morris, P, Orioles

Cito Gaston, OF, Braves

Ron Brand, C/SS/3B, Astros



OTHER NOTABLE PLAYERS 1969

1B/OF Mike Hegan (purchased from Yankees)

P Jim Bouton (purchased from Yankees)

IF John Kennedy (purchased from Yankees)

OF Billy Williams (purchased from Indians)



AMATEUR DRAFT, 1969

1 Gorman Thomas, SS

2 Bert Blyleven, P

3 Dwight Evans, OF

5 Bob Boone, C

10 Billy North, OF

15 Jim Slaton, P

16 Buddy Bell, 3B



1970

1 John D’Acqusitio, P

2 Rick Reuschel, P

6 Rich Gossage, P

11 Bill Madlock 1B

26 Doc Medich, P

35 Dave Kingman, 1B



1971

1 Tom Veryzer, SS

3 Dennis Lamp, P

13 Mike Flanagan, P

36 Phil Garner, 2B



1972

1 Scott McGregor, P

5 Randy Jones, P

24 Mike Hargrove, C



1973

1 Johnnie LeMaster, SS (from Paintsville — Robin Yount went to the Giants)

2 Len Barker, P

3 Eddie Murray, 1B

5 LaMarr Hoyt, P

7 Mike Krukow, P

14 Dwayne Murphy, OF







COLONELS POSTSEASON ROSTER, 1974

MANAGER: Al Dark

PITCHERS

Bert Blyleven

Jim Slaton

Dennis Lamp

Mike Flanagan

Rick Reuschel

Doc Medich

Ed Sprague

Randy Jones

Tom Murphy

Mike Marshall

Goose Gossage

CATCHERS

Bob Boone

Mike Hargrove

INFIELDERS

Bill Madlock, 1B

Phil Garner, 2B

Johnnie LeMaster, SS

Buddy Bell, 3B

Don Money

John Vukovich

Mike Hegan

OUTFIELDERS

Dwight Evans, LF

Gorman Thomas, CF

Billy North, RF

Sixto Lezcano

DESIGNATED HITTER

Dave Kingman
 

DTF955Baseballfan

I like it. Remember it's 1975, you wrote 74, but it looks good. However there is one person you forgot.

With the up and coming third baseman in Buddy Bell, the Colonels may very well trade on money because a certain team in desperate need of a third baseman may very well be willing to take money for Bullpen pitcher who can't quite get it together for them but will in another year or so.

I mean the New York Mets traded for Jim fregosi, who was a shortstop who they tried to make a third baseman, in our timeline. So you could easily have the Colonels get Nolan Ryan.

Dwight Evans had an incredible arm. I think he would be in right field and florist in left, although maybe North and Center because he was really fast.
 
Brky2020

Brky2020

You're right...'75.

1974 Amateur Draft

1 Rick Sutcliffe, P

5 Steve Henderson, SS-3B

12 Jim Gantner, SS

22 Paul Molitor, SS


1975

2, Lee Smith, RP

5, Lou Whitaker, 2B








COLONELS POSTSEASON ROSTER, 1975

MANAGER: Al Dark

PITCHERS

STARTERS

Bert Blyleven

Jim Slaton

Dennis Lamp

Mike Flanagan

Nolan Ryan

RELIEVERS

Doc Medich

Ed Sprague

Randy Jones

Tom Murphy

Mike Marshall (set-up)

Goose Gossage (closer)

CATCHERS

Bob Boone

Mike Hargrove

INFIELDERS

Bill Madlock, 1B

Phil Garner, 2B

Johnnie LeMaster, SS

Buddy Bell, 3B

Don Money

John Vukovich

Mike Hegan

OUTFIELDERS

Dwight Evans, LF

Gorman Thomas, RF

Billy North, CF

Sixto Lezcano

DESIGNATED HITTER

Dave Kingman
 
Brky2020

Brky2020

Thanks, @gap80 !

If there are any inconsistencies from what I've posted, point them out and I'll clear them up.

If the NBA-ABA merger still happens after the '75-'76 season, then I propose the following:

1) The Colonels win the ABA title in '75, since we're in 1975 at this point in the timeline. The Warriors win the NBA title.

2) St. Louis is now in the ABA at this point. Their owners got millions of free money because they asked for a share of the TV revenues as compensation for not going into the NBA. Somebody thinks ahead and says 'no, we'll let you join and you'll share in any TV revenues just like everybody else'. So six teams (I'm including the Pacers) go in the NBA for '76-'77. New ownership takes over the Colonels, as John Y. Brown is allowed to buy the Buffalo Braves and do whatever he wants there. St. Louis sticks around for a while, and maybe they're the team that eventually moves to Salt Lake City.

3) If the Jazz stay in New Orleans, you have to find a way to make it viable. There were reasons the team up and moved north IOTL.

4) A question: DO the White Sox move to Milwaukee -- and does Bud Selig buy them? If Selig's not around as an owner, ever, you've just handwaved his (potential ITTL) future tenure as commissioner.
 
Brky2020

Brky2020

Since the NBA-ABA merger happens as IOTL, David Thompson still goes to the Nuggets.

To get the Colonels into the league, Gilmore goes to the Bulls, and some kind of trade is made to get Moses Malone to the Colonels as compensation.

I'd also like to point out that in 1975, Louisville and Kentucky came within one game of playing each other in the NCAA basketball championship game. UCLA beat UofL in the semis. UK-UofL at that time would have been as big as the World Series, because basketball was that big throughout the state.

So, a possibility is that UofL plays the 'perfect game' and denies legendary coach John Wooden of UCLA another national title in his final season. That puts them against UK for the national title.

It might have compelled the state legislature to mandate UK play UofL earlier than ITTL. I don't have much time now to get into it, I can do so later tonight if anyone's interested.
 

DTF955Baseballfan

@BrianD, who did they trade to get Nolan Ryan - you had them keep Don money. And Buddy Bell. And Bill Madlock.

Let me share how I do it in my timelines - you put together a very good team, but it can even be a bit better.

I would take the 1975 Brewers as the starting point. They had some good pieces, look at George Scott on that team. Your other infield spots are good, but Don Money would be a perfect candidate to trade for Nolan Ryan given his age and others they have.

This lets them play Buddy Bell at third or even Graig Nettles if the Indians trade him instead - but they probably don't if they don't have Bell waiting in the wings. Plus Bell is a good draftee since they're close to Cincinnati where his dad Gus Bell played.

So, the infield would be: George Scott, Phil Garner, Robin Yount (LeMaster only played a couple dozen games OTL in '75 and wasn't a regular for a couple more years yet), Buddy Bell or Bill Madlock. (If you don't want Yount you could always have a trade)

Darrell Porter or Bob Boone catching, it's Porter. Mike Hargrove threw lefthanded - he's a first baseman, though you're right that he was a very slow runner and catchers could sometimes outrun him. :) I'm guessing you were looking platoon, so you had the right idea. Boone wasn't that great offensively and wasn't even really good yet, maybe they platoon if you want but eventually Boone might get traded. Mike Hegan can sub at catcher.

Since Madlock won the NL batting crown, I'd go with him. Bell, Hargrove, etc. can be traded earlier to get someone really good to complete the puzzle for 1975.

Gorman Thomas wasn't quite really to be a full-time player but could be a good 4th outfielder, likely it's Lezcano in left, Bill North in center, Dwight Evans in right.

Hank Aaron might even be the DH. But Dave Kingman's okay, I just never liked his personality.

So the lineup is: North, Yount, Madlock, Scott, Evans, Kingman, Lezcaano, Porter, Garner

(as the only lefty batter other than North, a switch hitter, Porter could do some serious damage and might hit 6th or even 5th versus some righties)

Although again, free agency means someone could be signed - an outfielder in place of Lezcano, for instance.

Your pitching staff is really good as you built it - Ryan is the key, but Bert Blyleven is also important since Ryan had a bit of a down year in '75. DennisLamp didn't come up till '77 OTL, but maybe a different coach teaches him something like a knuckleball that can help him - baseball has a number of players who blossomed only with the right coaching. Mike FLanagan is another who didn't come up as a starter till ate, but I trust te Orioles had the best coach or near so at the time :)

However, free agency is available, and I also like to look at possible trades to see who among the top players in a given year could have helped. Gossage is crucial, but there's another pitcher who might have emerged as the ace when Ryan or Blyleven were expected to - Randy Jones. He could have been drafted by the Colonels if the Padres, owned by Ray Kroc, don't pick him. Or he could have been acquired in a trade before the '75 season (since it was his first big season) for some of the players like LeMaster and Hargrove (who could have been a DH in '74 and who the Padres got OTL anyway by '76) and minor leaguers.

So, I'd have the stafrting rotation ats: Ryan, Blyleven, Jones, Medich, Slaton as the spot starter (many teams still used 4-man rotations thought it was starting to be 5-man), Lamp in the bullpen and spot starts, and Gossage as the cloer.

That looks like a team that could, with breaks, upset the Red Sox in a tight pennant race.

Edit: Buddy Bell and some pitching for Tony Perez, with Perez as the DH, might work - they might only have him for a year with free agency rules but it would make sense, and he'd be better than Kingman. (And hit 5th on that club.)
 
Last edited:

AndyWho

BrianD said:
3) If the Jazz stay in New Orleans, you have to find a way to make it viable. There were reasons the team up and moved north IOTL.
Click to expand...

The common thread I have heard is that the Jazz held the #1 overall pick for 1979 before trading it to Gail Goodrich back in 1976. Another idea has been David Dixon (the man behind the USFL and getting the Saints to NOLA) purchasing the team and the state pushing for an arena in due time (if not some deal on the Dome). There are plenty of viable ways to keep the team solvent and popular (even a potential finals for 1982).

gap80 said:
Both names are unique and memorable!
Click to expand...
gap80 said:
What's wrong with Jazz?
Click to expand...

Sure, Jazz would be memorable, but it's unique to the city. When I think of Utah, it isn't Jazz I am thinking about. It's the vast rockiness of the state, the area of the Golden Spike in the Transcontinental Railroad, the state parks. If Utah had an NBA team or even kept their ABA team, being known as the Pioneers, the Caverns, the Stars, or even the Voyagers would be unique and memorable names AND fitting to Utah.
 
Brky2020

Brky2020

@DTF955Baseballfan , thanks for the feedback!

Here are my thoughts on your reply:


1) Robin Yount/Johnnie LeMaster. I had the Colonels picking lower in the ’73 draft than the Brewers did IOTL, since the Colonels would likely have had a better record; Yount went fourth overall IOTL and should have done about the same ITTL. LeMaster went in the first round to the Giants IOTL and was from Paintsville in Eastern Kentucky, so I had the Colonels pick him up. So my options should be:

A) draft Yount. LeMaster would be gone by the time the Colonels picked in the 2nd round.

B) draft LeMaster, while ’71 draft pick Tom Veryzer plays short.

I'll go with option A, with Yount having slipped through the cracks from No. 4 to wherever the Colonels would have drafted in the first round.



2) Dave Kingman. Hank Aaron is a Hall of Fame and a big name, and would definitely be a topic of conversation among the media. But Kingman would have more years, as Aaron was 41 at the time, and Kingman 27.

Remember, since the Colonels were an expansion team, they had to build through the farm system and since they’re not in a major market, they have to get their stars from the farm. I think that’s what Kansas City did, but I could be way off base on that one.



3) Nolan Ryan. I’ll make the trade — Bob Boone, Don Money, real money, and Scott McGregor.



4) Sixto Lezcano — I want him as a fourth outfielder and a future starter, alongside Thomas and Evans and eventually Dwayne Murphy (who’ll actually replace North in center).



5) George Scott — I hear ya, but he’s 31 and Madlock is only 24. I have Scott playing for the Red Sox.


6) Mike Hargrove — trade bait. The question is, where and for whom? I would want a backup catcher, a middle infielder and/or a relief pitcher. If I send him to Texas, is asking for Roy Smalley and cash too much?



7) Need a backup catcher — Charlie Moore?



8) Buddy Bell — then who plays third? And Tony Perez is 33 as of 1975.


9) Mike Flanagan/Dennis Lamp -- both in the minors, playing for AAA Memphis in the International League (the Expos got screwed ITTL, by having their top farm team in Sacramento instead of in the home of Beale Street, Elvis and Jerry Lawler) with a very good pitching staff (starters Scott McGregor and Flanagan, relievers LaMarr Hoyt, Jerry Augustine, Larry Andersen and Lamp), and (eventually) serviceable major leaguers like Luis Pujols, Rob Wilfong, Lenn Sakata, Dick Davis and Terry Whitfield.


COLONELS POSTSEASON ROSTER, 1975 (TAKE TWO)

MANAGER: Al Dark

PITCHERS

STARTERS

Bert Blyleven

Nolan Ryan

Doc Medich

Randy Jones

RELIEVERS

John D’Acquisito (spot starter)

Jim Slaton (spot starter)

Ed Sprague

Tom Murphy

Mike Marshall (set-up)

Goose Gossage (closer)

CATCHERS

Darrell Porter

Charlie Moore

INFIELDERS

Bill Madlock, 1B

Phil Garner, 2B

Robin Yount, SS

Buddy Bell, 3B

Roy Smalley

John Vukovich

Mike Hegan

OUTFIELDERS

Dwight Evans, LF

Billy North, CF

Gorman Thomas, RF

Sixto Lezcano

DESIGNATED HITTER

Dave Kingman
 
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