Keeping England Saxon

**Disclaimer** I'm sure there is already a thread out about the topic im going to bring up, but i can't for the life of me find it,so im going to start a new one**Disclaimer**

as all should know, 1066 AD (fuck the man and his fascist C.E. BS) was a very turbulent time for the little island country of England. Edward the Confessor, one of England's better kings, died without issue. there were three pretenders for the throne.

Harold Godwinson claimed the throne througha promise Edward supposedly made a few years before he died. Harold took the throne on the death of the Confessor, and held it foe less than a year.

William the Bastered of Normandy had a better claim, i think one of his sisters was an in-law of the ruling house or something. in any case his claim carried more weight i believe since even Harold had pledged to support him.

the third was Harold Hardrade who had the shakiest claim. Tostig Godwinson, Harold's brother supported Hardrade as did a few minor Anglo-Saxon nobles

assuming, that Stanford Bridge goes the same, if not better for Godwinson, and he manages to defeat William at Hastings, what sort of world are we looking at with a Saxon England? i know off the top of my head there would be no Hundred Years war since the Plantagenets would not be on the throne. and many things the Normans brought to the island such as counties as opposed to shires, and a different sort of Feudalism would be carried off on the wings of butterflies. but what else changes?
 
I really have to point out that your point on who was the "legitimate king" is entirely wrong, englaland (no thats not a misspelling, that is really what saxon England was called) had an elective monarchy not a hereditary monarchy and while that only tended to matter when the hereditary heir to the throne was an infant or the male line had just died out, so Harold was the rightful king because he was elected by them.

On topic Harold remaining king would probably mean an England more focused on Northern Europe and more aligned with the modern day Netherlands and Scandinavia culturally and politically. Of course the big questions are 1. does Svend still invade given the totally different situation? and 2. How long do the Godwinsons actually last on the throne? Despite Harold being a relatively strong king personally (held a massive amount of land and not at all incompetent) but there really wasnt much time for his sons to prove themselves so its up in the air whether or not they will be up to snuff or not. Although I will say that this will be a better fate for englalands peasantry, they end up with a much better lot in the country thanks to there being no introduction of French style feudalism that severely hurt the large yeomanry and better off peasants. Englaland itself will probably continue its trend of being one of the most centralized monarchies in christendom.

Another important thing I just remembered is no Culling of the North so the north of england may remain important still.
 
i completely forgot about the culling of the north and the destruction of the Saxon nobility.

so the Anglo-Saxon form of government with an elected king and the Witenganmot would not change then i assume because of the failed invasion, and also slavery would continue. not chattel slavery but the aceint form were that your occupation.

my biggest interest is how the next 1000 years develop, i mean for the rest of the world, except maybe France and the rest of the isles there wont be much of a change. but does England look to the north, to Scandinavia or do they look to France and Normandy for retribution perhaps? and how dose the English Language change?
 
Things will become interesting for Anglo-Saxon England, once Edgar the Atheling is old enough and enough (high) nobles become discontent with Harold.

Retribution? Maybe between the ruling houses, but I guess that in the long run they would look definetely look to France (including Normandy), the Low Countries etc. for trade, not just Scandinavia.

The language will chage, but just like other Western Germanic languages, like German and Dutch, this ATL English will still have some French influence (given the wealth and population of France), however less than IOTL.

English might even not become too Norse, but could instead become more similar to Dutch.
 
Last edited:
The Saxon nobility being less tied to the continent than the Norman would, I think, mean, at least, a little more involvement with the Celtic nations; probably Scotland the most.
 
the language is what interests me the most i think, because of just how different modern English would be.

also how do you think the discovery of the New World would go. and would there be less interest or more?

and how quick would Scotland and Wales be conquered if the Saxons were still in charge
 
the language is what interests me the most i think, because of just how different modern English would be.

also how do you think the discovery of the New World would go. and would there be less interest or more?

and how quick would Scotland and Wales be conquered if the Saxons were still in charge

I won't compete with the other excellent tread in this forum about language.

Too many butterflies to say anything firm about the discovery of the New World.

At a risk of making them all fluffy in comparing them to the Normans, trade was more important to the Saxons. Any dominance might not be as much flat out conquest as political and/or economic. It might be a lot more successful, too.
 
actually there were 4 contenders ... Sweyn the younger of denmark had a claim as well, but didn't try and force it at the same time as the others.

That said, given no succesful norman conquest of england, they'd look more towards Scotland, Frisia and Scandinavia than they would towards France, both when it comes to cultual exchange and rivalry.

Areas such as Kent and the southern coast would look towards france, while the eastern coast from East Anglia and northwards would look towards Scandinaiva.
 
Keeping England Saxon is going to mean a lot of great magnates with regional power bases, unlike OTL where William redesigned the main holdings to give wealth but as far as possible no English version of himself arising.
 
Top