Keep Woodrow Wilson out of the White House

January 23rd, 1910

Trenton, New Jersey


Woodrow Wilson stepped out into the sunlight. He blinked as his eyes adjusted to the light out front of the statehouse. As he stepped out onto the street, a man shouted at him, directing his attention to the right.


"Oh hello John!"


Wilson was so enthralled in his conversation with the man that he didn't hear the pounding of the horse's hooves.


He didn't hear the shouting of the carriage driver.


The last thing his brain processed before he was ground into the pavement by the momentum of the carriage and the mighty horses was the sight of John dashing towards him in a vain attempt to push him out of the way.
Don’t know where this is from, but damn, that’s a great passage.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Teddy can easily become president again given the circumstances but since you mentioned that video I would like to say Teddy could have handled the aftermath of that war just as badly or worse. He wasn’t an idealist like Wilson but calling him a straight up imperialist would be fair. He would have made everything south of the US border into puppets and banana republics if he could. He wasn’t as bad as the Europeans about it but he was still pretty imperialistic by US standards. Teddy would have sent Americans to die in a war it had no business in just based off his pride and ideas of glory. Teddy was kind of a cowboy about this stuff especially foreign affairs. Teddy would have not been remembered well if he was president during that war. If the US joined that war earlier especially without Germany sinking our boats yet or even before the telegram Americans are going to be super pissed at the president for involving us in the war. Teddy could very well end up assassinated by someone if he encourages a war many Americans won’t nothing to do with. Or at least be a president who has zero support in Congress and senate. Teddy trying to push for a war to earlier could honestly have the counter effect of making Americans more isolationist or even more pro-German(depends what Britain is doing. The Brits can screw up with the US like Germany in otl given the chance. If Teddy is seen by the public as unnecessarily provoking Germany and as a British kiss ass he popularity will plummet quick). That telegram or continued German attacks on US vassals is the only way the US will join the war with public support. Teddy can’t do declare war without support. This agree with that video on the Wilson part but that whole part about Teddy is kind of bullshit and guilty of the very idealism the video is supposed to criticize Wilson for.

This is my opinion but the United States had no damn business in that war. If it wasn’t for Germany and Wilhelm stupidity it would have been that way. I agree with Washington statement. We should stay out of European or any old world affairs. Once you get into them they keep dragging you back in. It would have been better for the US declare strict neutrality and say they are willing to trade with anyone but you must bring your ships to our ports to do it(so when German u boats sink ships they aren’t American ones or even have Americans on them. Also tell Americans not to travel on British ships until the war is over. If they do that is on them individually). Europe destroys its and the war ends in either stalemate or German victory in Europe while Britain wins everywhere else. All the powers would likely own money to the US after the war. The US is a business minded and very capitalist nation. That isn’t always the nation you want playing the role of the world police or superpower. American century and superpower status is more due to the stupidity and self destructive nature of Europe more so then anything else. The US is the one country that just became a superpower without even really trying too.
On the other hand, I'd like prefer Teddy over Wilson when it comes to representing America at Versailles. Wilson's ludicrously idealistic stance, especially the utterly stupid "every nation should have access to the sea" single-handedly led to Germany-Poland tension over Danzig, not to mention Italy-Yugoslavia, with Italy being denied Fiume and Trieste.

Also, I doubt Teddy would have pulled Wilson's OTL suppression of civil liberty and arresting of Socialists like Eugene Debs.
 
On the other hand, I'd like prefer Teddy over Wilson when it comes to representing America at Versailles. Wilson's ludicrously idealistic stance, especially the utterly stupid "every nation should have access to the sea" single-handedly led to Germany-Poland tension over Danzig, not to mention Italy-Yugoslavia, with Italy being denied Fiume and Trieste.

Also, I doubt Teddy would have pulled Wilson's OTL suppression of civil liberty and arresting of Socialists like Eugene Debs.
I’ll agree Wilson is overall worse especially domestically but Teddy is stubborn, prideful, and kind of overbearing. He would likely piss off a lot of people at Versailles with his very American attitude. Teddy I think start different issues then Wilson. I could see him trying to get America colonies or punish Germany more in the peace deals. Teddy would make us no better then Europe and his decisions could tie us to there bullshit for decades to come. He would get the US involved in international affairs starting after ww1 instead of 2 which isn’t a good thing. Since ww1 the US has been in more conflicts in the old world then the Western Hemisphere. Latin America might be filled with crime, poverty, and corruption but at least the Western Hemisphere doesn’t have conflicts that date back centuries, genocides, religious extremism, and ethnic cleansing of the old world. Our worse are cartels, mobsters, lynchings, and corrupt politicians. Europe might look nicer then the US but on a bad day they will go to much farther extremes then the US would. This is the one time our impulsive and greedy nature is a saving grace. Americans are too worried about themselves or money to be as calculating and vengeful as Germany. Teddy reaction to ww1 would be just as stupid but in a different way. Let the Europeans just kill each other. They have been doing so for thousands of years. The point of America and the people who come to the US is to get away from all that old world nonsense not to involve ourselves back into it.
 

kernals12

Banned
I think Wilson saw the war as the golden opportunity to bring democracy to the world and as such felt that the ends justified the means when it came to winning it, even locking up its critics.
 

kernals12

Banned
If I may play devil's advocate here: Wilson originated the idea of foreign policy being based on shared ideals and values rather than just the cynical desire for more and more territory. He was one of the first world leaders of a great power who was unabashedly anti-imperialist. For that, we should be eternally grateful, as it has made the world freer and more peaceful.

God knows how much longer the old way of international relations would've lasted without him as president.
 
Also, I doubt Teddy would have pulled Wilson's OTL suppression of civil liberty and arresting of Socialists like Eugene Debs.

I wouldn't count on that. TR was ferociously hostile to "pacifists"

OTOH he might have attacked on a broader front. He criticised Wilson for prosecuting relatively poor men like Tom Watson, while sparing bigger fish like William Randolph Hearst.


(so when German u boats sink ships they aren’t American ones or even have Americans on them. Also tell Americans not to travel on British ships until the war is over. If they do that is on them individually).

The Vice President of the United States seems to have agreed with you.

On 11 May 1915 {ie just after the sinking of the Lusitania) Thomas R Marshall made a speech in Tupelo, MS, in which he argued that Americans should think carefully before travelling on belligerent ships. Specifically "If a man goes onto an English ship he has in effect put himself on English soil, and should perhaps be willing to abide the consequences" [1]

This caused a bit of a flurry and some newspaper speculation about a rift between him and President Wilson. However, a few days later Marshall held a press conference at which he indignantly denied anything of the sort, insisting that he and the President were in complete accord. Make of that what you will.

[1] I don't have it in front of me so can't guarantee every word; but this was definitely the gist of it.
 
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