Jaguars are the same. I saw a doco the other day with a jaguar killing and eating a caiman in a thickly forested swampland, yet there are jaguars wandering into the southwestern deserts of the USA as well.
Keep Lions in the Americas
- Thread starter wtw
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Jaguars are the same. I saw a doco the other day with a jaguar killing and eating a caiman in a thickly forested swampland, yet there are jaguars wandering into the southwestern deserts of the USA as well.
Well, keep in mind that Siberian tigers are huge compared to wolves so that probably helps.
As for the hyenas and lions comparison, hyenas are extremely robust and have a huge bite force. Wolves seem to be more delicate compared to hyenas. Could wolves stand up to American lions the way hyenas stand up to African lions? I also think the African savanna vs Siberia is a matter of prey density. Siberia doesn't have as much prey so the tigers and wolves are forced into more competition. If prey was a lot more limited in the savanna, we might see fewer hyenas where there a large lion populations.
In the 1800s the Jaguar was found as far north as Monterey CA and the North Platte River in Colorado as well as east Texas, that's a big chunk of the Southwest USA. As for why it didn't range further, I don't know, but the Tiger never got into Africa and the Asiatic Lion didn't go further east than India. So the limits on the Jaguars range in the north and south aren't that unusual compared to other big cats.
SpamBotSam
Banned
When did the cave lions go extinct?
Btw, the lions in Greece and the Balkans were probably asiatic lions. Cave lions were maneless. The lions that lived in Ancient Greece had small manes, similar to asian lions that live in india today.
SpamBotSam
Banned
I don't think a jaguar population lived in Colorado or Monterey California (they never lived that far north, only in the southwest), but some jaguars probably traveled a large distance looking for food and may have ventured into other states, similar to how wolves from the Northwest and Midwest have ventured into California and Kentucky.
Jaguar were described by Langsdorff in 1814 and Beechey in 1828 as being present in Monterey, and a breeding den existed in the Tehchapi mountains north of LA in 1860. I think it would be splitting hairs to say that jaguars never lived that far north.
SpamBotSam
Banned
Living in southern california isnt living that far north. California is a huge state.
I don't understand what you mean? Jaguars were documented to be present in the Monterey area in 1814 and 1826 scientific expeditions, I didn't think this was in dispute. If females with cubs were known to inhabit the Tehachapi mountains in 1860 I don't think it's beyond belief that they also lived 250 miles north 40 years previously.
Merriam, C. Hart (1919). "Is the Jaguar Entitled to a Place in the California Fauna?". Journal of Mammalogy 1: 38–40. http://www.jstor.org/stable/1373720?seq=3
mojojojo
Gone Fishin'
So is there any speculation or theories as to why the ranges of those cats stopped there?
Finger in the air time.
Tiger are solitary ambusher hunters and prefer jungles/forests. I see no reason why they can not have moved into Europe, but to date no sign of them. It might be that we just have not found any fossils yet and that they were later competed to extinction by hunting hominids.
Lions are more social so if you don't get a high enough density of large animals for them to kill/hijack from hyenas the pride is starved out of existence. That would preclude moving into Siberia or the Amazon Rain Forest.
SpamBotSam
Banned
Why do lions dislike dense forests? If you look at a map of even their historic range, theyve never lived in any jungles. It's not like jungles dont have enough animals as prey for lions to hunt. Tigers are bigger than lions, yet they still manage to find enough prey in a jungle to eat.
In the Asian jungles, maybe Tigers were already established when the [individually weaker] Lions arrived and the Lions simply couldn't compete successfully with them?
SpamBotSam
Banned
I dont think that was the reason. Lions and tigers overlapped ranges in India and even in Iraq and Iran (middle east) hundreds of years ago.
Lions can climb, but I don't think they're particularly good at it, unlike leopards or tigers. Tigers and leopards generally ambush prey, lions run it down in groups.
We may find out in the next few years how lions and tigers interact when the Indian government reintroduces lions from the overpopulated Gir forest into Kuno Wildlife sanctuary. Kuno is only about 100km from Ranthambore NP and already is an overflow area for Ranthambore's tiger population.
It's interesting how a developing country like India can revive the tiger and the lion while a powerful, rich country like the USA with a strong environmental awareness can't do the same with the jaguar.
It's interesting how a developing country like India can revive the tiger and the lion while a powerful, rich country like the USA with a strong environmental awareness can't do the same with the jaguar.
SpamBotSam
Banned
What makes you think India is going to reintroduce lions to Kuno Wildlife sanctuary? They cancelled the proposed reintroduction years ago, because too many people lived in the area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic_Lion_Reintroduction_Project