Keep Burgundy around

Anyone know of anyways to prolong the existance of the Kingdom/Duchy of Burgundy, as well as independant of France? I was just wandering what sort of impact it might have on things in Europe.
 
Have Charles the Bold beget a son who would survive him. This means that with a male heir, Burgundy is in less danger of being subsumed by France or some other interested powers.

A major impact is that the Habsburgs won't have their half-of-Europe empire they did by the first quarter of the 16th century, because their acquisition of the Low Countries, Spain, Bohemia, and Hungary will be butterflied away. This also means that the Franco-Habsburg dynastic rivalry won't come to OTL extents, and thus the two branches of Valois (Valois-France and Valois-Burgundy) are the bigger rivals. Still, Burgundian territory is strategically important, given the wealth of the Low Countries.
 
Anyone know of anyways to prolong the existance of the Kingdom/Duchy of Burgundy, as well as independant of France? I was just wandering what sort of impact it might have on things in Europe.

The point is, which Burgundy? There is the kingdom of the Burgundians, which eventually was conquered by the Franks. This later was a Frankish sub-kingdom.

When the Carolingians divided the Frankish empire most of it ended up with Francia Media, a western part became part of the kingdom of the Western Franks (France) and developed into the duchy of Burgundy. The region east of the duchy of Burgundy in the kingdom of Burgundy was known as the Franche Comté de Bourgogne (free county of Burgundy) and another region in this kingdom now belonging two Switzerland was the landgraviate of Burgundy or little Burgundy.

Francia later was divided further in Italy, Lotharingia and Burgundy. This Burgundy shortly was nominally divided between Western Francia and Eastern Francia, but the unclear situation allowed two nobles to establish the kingdoms of Upper and Lower Burgundy. When the rulers of these two kingdoms also sought the Italian throne, it came to a trade, where one would get Italy and the other managed to reunite Upper and Lower Burgundy into the kingdom of Burgundy.

The kingdom of Burgundy fell into sphere of influence of the Eastern Frankish German kingdom and eventually the heirless Rudolph III left Burgundy in 1032 to HRE Konrad II, after this the kingdom of Burgundy (Arles/Arelat) became one of the kingdoms of the HRE. Most of the territory was gradually acquired by France, however there still was titular kingdom of Burgundy until the empire was dissolved in 1806.

The house of Valois-Burgundy founded by Philip the Bold (1342-1404) united the duchy of Burgundy and the free county of Burgundy and acquired a lot more possessions in mostly the Low Countries (once briefly a part of the kingdom of Lotharingia). Later his descendants Philip the Good (1396-1467) and Charles the Bold (1433-1477) were seeking a royal crown and Burgundy, together with Frisia/Friesland, Brabant and Lotharingia were suggested in negotiations with the emperor.
Especially Charles the Bold seem to have been close to a coronation, partly because he was so eager to become king, that he was willing to make concessions, which probably went to far for his father Philip the Good, when he had similar negotiations.
In fact the story goes that the emperor left Trier the place of coronation a day before the coronation of Charles was supposed to happen, because the emperor wasn't pleased about the behavior of Charles the Bold.
The coronation would have been performed by the archbishop (and elector) of Trier, the imperial archchancellor of Burgundy...
 
Have Charles the Bold beget a son who would survive him. This means that with a male heir, Burgundy is in less danger of being subsumed by France or some other interested powers.

A major impact is that the Habsburgs won't have their half-of-Europe empire they did by the first quarter of the 16th century, because their acquisition of the Low Countries, Spain, Bohemia, and Hungary will be butterflied away. This also means that the Franco-Habsburg dynastic rivalry won't come to OTL extents, and thus the two branches of Valois (Valois-France and Valois-Burgundy) are the bigger rivals. Still, Burgundian territory is strategically important, given the wealth of the Low Countries.

I agree with the butterflies yet for a house of Habsburg focused on the empire the re-acquisition of Bohemia and Hungary will be even more important than IOTL. How they will or won't be able to succeed in doing so, is something different, but this goal won't be butterflied away.
 

yourworstnightmare

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Have Charles V not inheriting Spain. With the Lowlands being rich Burgundy would be the most important Habsburg holding, and they might very well rule from there, thus making Burgundy their main title, or if Charles does like OTL and give the Austrian lands to his brother there would be two separate Habsburg lines: The Burgundian Habsburgs and the Austrian Habsburgs.
 
Have Charles V not inheriting Spain. With the Lowlands being rich Burgundy would be the most important Habsburg holding, and they might very well rule from there, thus making Burgundy their main title, or if Charles does like OTL and give the Austrian lands to his brother there would be two separate Habsburg lines: The Burgundian Habsburgs and the Austrian Habsburgs.

No Habsburg Spain also has an effect on the marriage politics of the Habsburgs, under these circumstances Charles instead of Ferdinand might marry Anne of Bohemia & Hungary instead. Furthermore the lines might not split this way, in fact I'm sure that Ferdinand, if he isn't butterflied away, since he was born and raised in Spain, will get less ITTL.
 
No Habsburg Spain also has an effect on the marriage politics of the Habsburgs, under these circumstances Charles instead of Ferdinand might marry Anne of Bohemia & Hungary instead. Furthermore the lines might not split this way, in fact I'm sure that Ferdinand, if he isn't butterflied away, since he was born and raised in Spain, will get less ITTL.

Indeed, and if the Habsburgs stay in Burgundy, they've still inherited the emnity shared between the Valois of France and Valois of Burgundy. So France is still going to be interested in the Low Countries, esp. Flanders. Charles' father actually had to pay homage to the King of France for Flanders as it was still a French fief until the Treaties after the Battle of Pavia. Even then, Charles' Burgundian legacy is well shown as the original terms saw the return of Burgundy to the Habsburgs (that is, the Duchy that Louis XI had conquered and claimed from Mary the Rich). Of course, the terms were never filled. But even if the Habsburgs inherit the Low Countries, they'll still be at odds with the French. Without Spain of course, they aren't 'encircled,' but Spain and the Habsburgs will still be pretty friendly to counter France's ambitions.
 
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