Karl Peter Ulrich's War!

Fredrik Adolf is described as a rather meek man. I find it very strange that the oldest son of the King would go anywhere - he IS the heir and would be kept on a tight leash. I demand Gustav III and Gustav IV Adolf. ;) Both were enlightened autocrats semi-useless in war but, especially in the case of Gustav IV Adolf, skilled administrators. Gustav IV Adolf would, with the recent victories, have all the prestige he needs to force land shifts through.

Chydenius was a learned man who loved academia. I am sure he would have created some kind of "administration" school, similar to military cadet schools - using that specific argument would probably fly well with von Lastinghausen and those that followed in government.

Indelningsverket produced 76 000 men in the mobilisation 1700, and that is without the former Danish provinces (Skåne, Blekinge, Halland), Kexholm, Estonia or Livonia being part of the system. Adding those provinces (Riga was Sweden's largest ciity 1629-1710) to the system, and considering an increase in agrcultural output (that Chydenius would surely use to add more rotar to the same amount of land) and population during the last 100 years would extrapolate to something like this.

As for a navy, as long as there is another navy in the Baltic, Sweden will need one. One cannot always trust the good-humoured nature of the Danies. ;) In order to protect the supply routes to and from Pommeriana and Estonia and Livonia, the Swedes will need a powerful navy - even if crewed by "peasants dipped in salt water".
 
Fredrik Adolf is described as a rather meek man. I find it very strange that the oldest son of the King would go anywhere - he IS the heir and would be kept on a tight leash. I demand Gustav III and Gustav IV Adolf. ;) Both were enlightened autocrats semi-useless in war but, especially in the case of Gustav IV Adolf, skilled administrators. Gustav IV Adolf would, with the recent victories, have all the prestige he needs to force land shifts through.

You may demand as much as you want - it remains this way. And later events didn't keep them from killing Gustav III off. And deposing his son.
A meek man may be kept instead of someone with a mind of his own.

As for a navy, as long as there is another navy in the Baltic, Sweden will need one. One cannot always trust the good-humoured nature of the Danies. ;) In order to protect the supply routes to and from Pommeriana and Estonia and Livonia, the Swedes will need a powerful navy - even if crewed by "peasants dipped in salt water".

Of course they will but I hardly expect them to build up to the Danish level - that would be overkill and suspicious action.
 
1788 in OTL, the navy, after af Chapman's construction, fielded 21 ships of the line and 18 frigates and about 10 smaller vessels. The coastal navy had 349 vessels (with 3000 guns and 21000 men) - as you can see, this is really a coastal army designed to operate in the archipelago on land and at sea.

The Swedish navy will continue to be a factor, methinks.
 
1788 in OTL, the navy, after af Chapman's construction, fielded 21 ships of the line and 18 frigates and about 10 smaller vessels. The coastal navy had 349 vessels (with 3000 guns and 21000 men) - as you can see, this is really a coastal army designed to operate in the archipelago on land and at sea.

The Swedish navy will continue to be a factor, methinks.

It certainly will - the Danish-Norwegian navy is at 40 ships of the line and 33 frigates as well as some smaller units.

I don't doubt the coastal navy and I did write of it taking part in the assault on Estonia and the Swedes using galleys on the lakes Onega and Ladoga.
 
I read about the Northwest Ordinance but was unsure about population numbers. So could the name of said state be West Florida?

But I also read about Alabama not becoming a state untill a piece of coastline could be added by the splitting of West Florida? Could the Mississippi Terr. then be admitted as one state instead of two? (This surely isn't my field. :eek:)

To question no. 1: Yes, at least in its short, colloquial form. Except for the 1000+ sq. mi. that made up the Isle of Orleans, it would be West Florida. Though nowadays the term is starting to die out, we still in Louisiana refer to the land north of Lake Pontchartrain and east of the Mississippi as the "Florida Parishes." When the French established New Orleans, it was always somewhat separate from the rest of the colony, sort of like the District of Columbia or the Districto Federal in Mexico. Perhaps akin to the official name of the "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations," the 18th state to be admitted into the Union might well carry the official moniker of the "State of West Florida and the Isle of Orleans." As to its capital, though I'd earlier said that Mobile would most likely be chosen to serve this function, I've since remembered that Biloxi, Miss. was the original capital of French Louisiana (1699), so that's also an option.

As for question no. 2: OTL, after Louisiana became a state in 1812, the further growth in the number of states was determined ultimately by an effort to perserve the balance of Free versus Slave states (then 9-9): Indiana and Alabama, Illinois and Mississippi, Maine and Missouri, Michigan and Arkansas, Iowa and Florida, Wisconsin and Texas, a pattern only broken with the admission of California in 1850. ITTL, the admission of West Florida will create the same balance in numbers, so what happens afterwards with the Mississippi Terr., Indiana Terr., and the newly acquired lands will probably follow the same path.

Except for Texas, west bank Louisiana and southern Arkansas, all the states admitted before 1850 OTL were created in the territory the US occupies as of the currect date of this TL... Without the Napoleonic Wars and the occupation of Spain, you've set the scene for a shitload of butterflies in the Americas. Take the helm of the ship of history, my friend, and I'll chime in now and then when you risk running aground in waters I'm familiar with :);)
 
...The colonial empire is also overstretched the colonization effort in Madagascar is only possible due to added human resources in the German Duchies. (wonder why no one's asked about the state's trafficing of poor peoples to the colonies ;)) and early industrilization.

What, like the many Brits who sold themselves into indentured service to get a chance to settle in America? Like the convicts who were shipped to Australia? Like the Paris tarts who were "encouraged" to emigrate to Louisiana? The Danes were saints in comparison :p
 
To question no. 1: Yes, at least in its short, colloquial form. Except for the 1000+ sq. mi. that made up the Isle of Orleans, it would be West Florida. Though nowadays the term is starting to die out, we still in Louisiana refer to the land north of Lake Pontchartrain and east of the Mississippi as the "Florida Parishes." When the French established New Orleans, it was always somewhat separate from the rest of the colony, sort of like the District of Columbia or the Districto Federal in Mexico. Perhaps akin to the official name of the "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations," the 18th state to be admitted into the Union might well carry the official moniker of the "State of West Florida and the Isle of Orleans." As to its capital, though I'd earlier said that Mobile would most likely be chosen to serve this function, I've since remembered that Biloxi, Miss. was the original capital of French Louisiana (1699), so that's also an option.

As for question no. 2: OTL, after Louisiana became a state in 1812, the further growth in the number of states was determined ultimately by an effort to perserve the balance of Free versus Slave states (then 9-9): Indiana and Alabama, Illinois and Mississippi, Maine and Missouri, Michigan and Arkansas, Iowa and Florida, Wisconsin and Texas, a pattern only broken with the admission of California in 1850. ITTL, the admission of West Florida will create the same balance in numbers, so what happens afterwards with the Mississippi Terr., Indiana Terr., and the newly acquired lands will probably follow the same path.

Except for Texas, west bank Louisiana and southern Arkansas, all the states admitted before 1850 OTL were created in the territory the US occupies as of the currect date of this TL... Without the Napoleonic Wars and the occupation of Spain, you've set the scene for a shitload of butterflies in the Americas. Take the helm of the ship of history, my friend, and I'll chime in now and then when you risk running aground in waters I'm familiar with :);)

Thanks on both questions - did solve the first and make for more headaches to the second!

I really appreciate the feedback and will try to navigate these rock ridden waters! :)
 
I've had the time and inspiration to work a little on this TL. Lets see how it turns out! :p


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1811[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]One outcome of the Slavery War is the initially self procurement of rifles of the Light Brigade. Having watched the skills of their US counterparts and knowing the accuracy of hunting rifled muskets the troops act on their own which serve to force the introduction of rifles into the Danish-Norwegian armies.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Emperor Charles of Germany is approached by the Danish Minister of the Empire regarding the Danish-Norwegian succession issue. The Emperor have no objections to the succession of either Polish Prince to the throne of Denmark-Norway and strictly speaking acknowledge that this would serve to observe Salic law regarding the succession to the Kings German Duchies.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Emperor however is uneasy about the position of his princes on the matter.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In Copenhagen the Emperors answer is as good as it gets and Prince Carl of Poland-Lithuania-Prussia is adopted by King Frederick 6. as his heir.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]On the Gold Coast the Danish garrisons are involved in the wars of countering the advance of the Ashanti. At times in alliance with British or Dutch garrisons at other times on their own. The presence of the Danish West Africa Squadron serve as a reserve of trained troops as the Marines are put ashore when possible to participate in the campaigns.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The first Christmas tree is lit in the home of a Copenhagen merchant who is making a fortune in trade of cane-sugar, cotton and coffee from the West Indies exported to Europe. Ever since the removal of the French colony of Saint Domingue and its export of these commodities the Danish West Indies have had an increasing trade of its produce. This situation have served to secure the independent planters position in the West Indies but have also claimed a constant flow of workers from the Kings lands. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The French-Austrian War had showed that the foreign powers could be evicted but strength is needed and the Italian princes had little such.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But other inspiration is close at hand that of the French Revolution and soon the romantic myth mixed with foreign repression and the corrupt Italian nobility makes for an explosive cocktail. The existence of the Cisalpine Republic serve to inspire the common man in that he too have the means for emancipation.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]And there is lots of friction in Italy. The Pope doesn't like the idea of man altering the state of the State and common man to renounce the authority of Church, nobility/royalty and State.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Church is very vocal on the Cisalpine republic condemning it and calling upon every sane leader to restore the order of God in these God-forsaken lands of Italy.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Reacting to the Papal rant the Cisalpine Republic enters in the footsteps of the French Revolution robbing the Church of its lands and income making its clergy public servants and have them renounce any obligations to serve the Pope. At this the Pope DEMAND order be restated in the Republic excommunicating it and ordering the princes of Europe to act.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]King Victor Emmanuel 1. of Sardinia is the first to obey the Papal order and places his meagre forces at the disposal of the Pope.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]France assures the Cisalpine Republic of support in the case of war.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Another Papal target is Germany or rather the German pontiff Von Dalberg because of his efforts to separate the German Catholic Church from the Mother Church. The controversy sparks off local protests in Catholic Germany and makes for some migration, primarily to New Spain where grants of land are rich for the one to take.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But the controversy become no more than this mainly due to the preoccupation of the Papacy with Italian matters.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In Mexico a priest Hidalgo is pondering rebellion against the supremacy of the Europeans. In light of the Spanish defeat in the Slave War Hidalgo is about to raise the native population in rebellion but the rebellion is uncovered and suppressed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The brutality of the suppression and continued European supremacy makes the idea spread in New Spain.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]To guard against another war with the USA Spain begin fortifying the Mississippi bank in the area of New Orleans to be able to pin down any enemy activities in the town.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Spanish government decide to encourage settlement in the Louisiana along the Mississippi and Arkansas rivers to build a front line against US aggression. The settlers are the French Acadians, catholic Irish, Scots but mostly Italians and Germans. The latter fleeing war and its aftermath as well as what they feel is religious prosecution in both areas.[/FONT]
 
One of the earlier discussion points was if the British were to keep Cuba following the Slave War. I've been giving this second thought and decided Britain was.

New 1810 map:

world 1810.png
 

Valdemar II

Banned
BTW have I given you this map? It's for the post war, through I'm not sure the HRE ernclaves in France should be kept.

Articwarrior1801.png
 
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I've got some questions.

Is king Frederick going to regain the lost land of Galicia from Austria? The time is good as Austrians are fighting in Italia.

Why is Prussia a separate realm, not incorporated into Poland (Royal Prussia and at least parts of Ducal Prussia) and Lithuania (Lithuanians would like to gain Koenigsberg)?

What is a religion of new Polish-Lithuanian monarchs? Saxons had to convert to catholicism to gain a crown. Earlier Vasas also were catholics.

And Poles would for sure use the polonized versions the names: Carl into Karol and Frederick into Fryderyk.
 
I've got some questions.

Is king Frederick going to regain the lost land of Galicia from Austria? The time is good as Austrians are fighting in Italia.

Not at the moment - Poland-Lithuania-Prussia is still recovering from the Livonian war in which it and Sweden fended off the Russians and aquired Kiev.

Why is Prussia a separate realm, not incorporated into Poland (Royal Prussia and at least parts of Ducal Prussia) and Lithuania (Lithuanians would like to gain Koenigsberg)?

What is a religion of new Polish-Lithuanian monarchs? Saxons had to convert to catholicism to gain a crown. Earlier Vasas also were catholics.

And Poles would for sure use the polonized versions the names: Carl into Karol and Frederick into Fryderyk.

Prussia is the third part of Poland-Lithuania-Prussia mostly because of the chance to rub it in on the Prussians who had been instrumental in the partition of Poland-Lithuania. And to ensure the Polish-Lithuanian nobility doesn't have any say there.

The Polish-Lithuanian-Prussian King is a roman catholic of course.

Well names might be changed in to native tounge but frankly that hasn't been a priority; I'll make a notice though. :)
 
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1812[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Death of German Imperial Treasurer Mayer Amschel Rothschild. His son Amschel Mayer Rothschild is made Treasurer by the Emperor Charles.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Cisalpine Crusade[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]King Ferdinand 1. of Naples and Sicily joins the Papal forces.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Papal alliance is weak as Venice is wavering and Modena outright scared of going to war. Its ruler Duke Francis 4. tries to use his family connection to Austria but Emperor Francis of Austria is not entering another war which would drag France into it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The alliance decide that Spain should be approached.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]King Charles 4. of Spain isn't adverse to supporting the Pope but is apprehensive of joining into alliance as France would be dragged in leading to a major war that Spain would lose! [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]King Charles is ready to finance the war of his cousin, King Ferdinand of Naples and Sicily and his allies. The only nag is the threat of rebellion in New Spain that serve to secure Charles in the perception of not joining in militarily in Italy.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Marching through the Papal state the allied army enters Modena forcing Duke Francis to join up and then proceed into the Cisalpine Republic.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]With the troops of King Victor Emmanuel 1. of Sardinia in the lead the atrocities on the citizens of the Republic is soon making for it being able to declare levee en masse to fight its enemies.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Just as swift as the attack now the retreat is undertaken leaving Modena to the Republicans and making for them to advance into the Papal state and occupy the Romagna.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Abbas Mirza commander of the Persian army and son of Shah Fat'h Ali is approached by British representatives for an agreement directed against possible Russian designs in the area. Even if Russia is seen as a minor threat the upheaval of the Ottoman Empire have changed the status quo in this part of the world and Persia is viewed as the present major player.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In north America US citizens and Hidalgo's of New Spain undertake filibuster expeditions into Spanish territory.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]US President Madison is however upholding the Neutrality Act of 1794 as the country isn't ready for another war yet and definitely not without strong allies.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Spanish settlement project in the Mississippi Valley is seen as a threat to the Republic though. And helps carry another period for Madison as president.[/FONT]
 
In OTL the nobility had much to say in the past because it were numerous: about 10% of population, while in most other european states it was like 1-2% of population. After the partitions the absolutist monarchies reduced the numbers of nobility renouncing the privileges for the less wealthy nobles. the same repeated after each failed insurrection. The former nobles migrated to the towns and became the founders of Polish inteligentsia. How did Carl and Frederick deal with the nobility in this timeline?
BTW. In P-L Commonwealth there were no aristicratic titles besides of some knyaz (princely) titles for old Russian and Lithuanian aristocracy. Would the new dynasty in this timeline introduce some counts or merquesses?

And thanks for the timeline in which the Commonwealth isn't dismembered and it seems to manage quite well, especially against Russia. A that time it was really powerfull state and Poland - Lithuania couldn't fight with it even in an alliance with somebody. Here PLC still is not powerfull enough to fight alone but it has faithfull allies.
 
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Valdemar II

Banned
In OTL the nobility had much to say in the past because it were numerous: about 10% of population, while in most other european states it was like 1-2% of population. After the partitions the absolutist monarchies reduced the numbers of nobility renouncing the privileges for the less wealthy nobles. the same repeated after each failed insurrection. The former nobles migrated to the towns and became the founders of Polish inteligentsia. How did Carl and Frederick deal with the nobility in this timeline?
BTW. In P-L Commonwealth there were no aristicratic titles besides of some knyaz (princely) titles for old Russian and Lithuanian aristocracy. Would the new dynasty in this timeline introduce some counts or merquesses?
.

That's a rather good question, Danish nobles didn't have titles either in OTL (except if they was descendant of royalty, they could be Dukes and Counts). But with the absolutisms the new nobles did get titles, it was based on how much land they owned and the productivity of it. So a man whom owned 1000 "Hartkorn" (unit of produtivity) land became lensbaron/friherre (Baron), while one which owned more than 2500 became lensgreve (count). I could see the Oldenburgs transfer this system to Poland. It increased production, created a loyal base and weakened the old nobility.
 
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