Karl Dönitz gets his 300 U-boats

Exactly how many new YARDS did the U.S. militaty construct during the war? That would be none.

Umm, constructing a shipyard is less time intensive than you think. As a well known US example I might cite American International Shipyard which constructed merchant ships, though. In US case commercial shipyards constructed even specialized ships such as submarines fairly efficiently, as displayed by such traditional shipyards as Manitowoc Shipbuilding

Then again one might ask whether Nazi shipyards operated at maximum output anyway? After all, total tonnage of what Nazis produced was fairly low.
 
Umm, constructing a shipyard is less time intensive than you think. As a well known US example I might cite American International Shipyard which constructed merchant ships, though. In US case commercial shipyards constructed even specialized ships such as submarines fairly efficiently, as displayed by such traditional shipyards as Manitowoc Shipbuilding

Then again one might ask whether Nazi shipyards operated at maximum output anyway? After all, total tonnage of what Nazis produced was fairly low.

Constructing a whole new shipyard is quite time consuming, you have an awful lot of digging to do...lots of steel needed, and the specialised equipment. But the US didnt need new ones, they had plenty of under-used existing ones, which had been upgraded before 1941-2.

I would suspect (I odn't, however, know) that any US naval vessels constructed in a commercial yard were using men used to building naval vessels. There is quite a big difference in some areas, and many yards tended to specialise in either naval or merchant shipping. However much of the equipment can be used for both, and in the UK at least some of the big operators like H&W built both.

Nazi production wasnt huge because, compares to the UK and USA, their shipbuilding resources were small.
 
Constructing a whole new shipyard is quite time consuming, you have an awful lot of digging to do...lots of steel needed, and the specialised equipment. But the US didnt need new ones, they had plenty of under-used existing ones, which had been upgraded before 1941-2

American International Shipbuilding Corporation's Hog Island shipyard, with 50 well-sized slips, was constructed within ten months during the First World War with construction equipment far below standards of what was available before Second World War.

As BlairWitch wrote, had the will been there, workforce and equipment could have been found with increased risk on other sectors. After all, Nazi Germany did produce an awful lot of quite useable, if outdated, Type VII's and Type IX's during latter years of the war.
 
American International Shipbuilding Corporation's Hog Island shipyard, with 50 well-sized slips, was constructed within ten months during the First World War with construction equipment far below standards of what was available before Second World War.

As BlairWitch wrote, had the will been there, workforce and equipment could have been found with increased risk on other sectors. After all, Nazi Germany did produce an awful lot of quite useable, if outdated, Type VII's and Type IX's during latter years of the war.

And as well, I was challanged to direct resources from other projects to construct the extra U-boats (which could have been done with the oder line)... Germany didn't ratchet itself up to serious war economy till 1943... they had many untapped labor resources as well
 
And as well, I was challanged to direct resources from other projects to construct the extra U-boats (which could have been done with the oder line)... Germany didn't ratchet itself up to serious war economy till 1943... they had many untapped labor resources as well

Oh god, not that old rubbish again.
What are you going to give us next, Speer and Manstein the Musical? :rolleyes:
 
Was the German surface fleet a waste? I've seen arguements on more than two sides of that subject. My own opinion is that the surface ships weren't a waste. Some were wasted, but building them in the first place was a good idea.

Still, considering Susano's and other's opinions, Germany might have been better off without some of the bigger ships. The heavy cruisers were dogs, limited by cranky machinery that kept them in port a lot of the time. The newer light cruisers with the three triple turrets were overloaded and lightly built; not good sea boats.

Of course, Germany needed every available ship for the invasion of Norway. So, assume that the light and heavy cruisers are better designs. Say the design teams are conservative in the cruiser designs. The heavy cruisers have less cutting edge and more reliable power plants; the light cruisers might look underarmed, but they're available. And of course, the destroyers. The best thing for Germany's destroyer situation is to not have 10 of them sunk at Narvik. If that can't be done, there are still design changes, like not overgunning some destroyer classes.

If a victorious Bismarck makes it to Brest, would the battleship's presence and fame be enough to get proper Luffwaffe coverage of the German fleet there?

All this is not to say that I think Germany can win with these changes. Merely that the war will be different and the world we know may be different.
 
Was the German surface fleet a waste? I've seen arguements on more than two sides of that subject. My own opinion is that the surface ships weren't a waste. Some were wasted, but building them in the first place was a good idea.

Still, considering Susano's and other's opinions, Germany might have been better off without some of the bigger ships. The heavy cruisers were dogs, limited by cranky machinery that kept them in port a lot of the time. The newer light cruisers with the three triple turrets were overloaded and lightly built; not good sea boats.

Of course, Germany needed every available ship for the invasion of Norway. So, assume that the light and heavy cruisers are better designs. Say the design teams are conservative in the cruiser designs. The heavy cruisers have less cutting edge and more reliable power plants; the light cruisers might look underarmed, but they're available. And of course, the destroyers. The best thing for Germany's destroyer situation is to not have 10 of them sunk at Narvik. If that can't be done, there are still design changes, like not overgunning some destroyer classes.

If a victorious Bismarck makes it to Brest, would the battleship's presence and fame be enough to get proper Luffwaffe coverage of the German fleet there?

All this is not to say that I think Germany can win with these changes. Merely that the war will be different and the world we know may be different.


Bismarck, if she made it back to St. Nazaire would be bombed by the British nightly. The Germans where still figuring out nightfighting at this point and the battlewagon would essentially be helpless in the dark. Whilst the British might not sink her in these raids, they would damage her over and over again to the point where the Germans give up and stop fixing her

The Hipper class cruisers, despite their range and machinary issues where not awful designs... the problem was that having only 3 of them doesn't give you a lot of strategic options to do things with them
 

Cook

Banned
Well this is simple: the answer is called Tirpitz.

The translation: it ties down a lot of RN resources, annoys a lot of people, but has absolutely zero impact on the course of the war beyond that.


Bismarck, if she made it back to St. Nazaire would be bombed by the British nightly… Whilst the British might not sink her in these raids, they would damage her over and over again to the point where the Germans give up and stop fixing her… the problem was that having only 3 of them doesn't give you a lot of strategic options to do things with them

Yes that was my thinking, she’d either be bombed in harbour from high altitude at night, or by a Swordfish if she left harbour again.
 
I would think that bombing Bismarck in Brest would be a lot easier than bombing Tirpitz in Trondheim.

While sinking it wouldn't be easy, I really can't see Bismarck surviving more than a few months.
 
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