(Kaiserreich) When did the US victory on civil war became inevitable?

Just to make it clear, I'm a supporter of the Unionists on the civil war, and not of Pelley and his clique, but of Long and the most progressive wing.

Now, many people like to discuss military strategy here, and so I want to know something from a military expert since I'm not one: When did the MacArthurian victory became irreversible? Usually I see people commenting that was after the louisiana campaign or the fall of Detroit, but it is always vague. What do you think?
 
The second Canada intervened militarily, it was over. The CSA and the AUS had no chance after fighting each other to exhaustion over nearly a year in Virginia and Maryland. So when Canadian material flooded towards Denver, the Canadian Army stormed down Michigan and New England as the RCN made covert shipments from Europe impossible, the result was a given
 
The second Canada intervened militarily, it was over. The CSA and the AUS had no chance after fighting each other to exhaustion over nearly a year in Virginia and Maryland. So when Canadian material flooded towards Denver, the Canadian Army stormed down Michigan and New England as the RCN made covert shipments from Europe impossible, the result was a given

I don't think so, the Unionists still had a crushing victory at Vicksburg, and the Syndicalists enveloped Omar Bradley at St. Louis after that, leading to his suicide. While it is true that the canadians helped a lot, the rebels, especially the CSA, still had their own industry to produce their goods, and the AUS had a considerable manpower base. What about later battles? After the fall of Houston in 1938 the AUS was deprived of most of it's oil production, I think that is a better point of decision.
 
After the fall of Houston in 1938 the AUS was deprived of most of it's oil production, I think that is a better point of decision.

they never got oil from Houston... The Feds torched the refineries before withdrawing

The fact is the moment Doug managed to guarantee the loyalty of the West Coast and when the Entente entered the war it was over the interdiction of Great lakes trade the forced redeployment of an entire army group from the Plains and the successful blockade of the rebels meant the war was won it just a question of how long
 
Honestly on day one. People like too note about the famous generals who joined each the CSA or AUS but the vast majority of the rank and file along with thier equipment stayed loyal especially in the Army air crops and Navy which were the deciding factor in the war with the blockade of the CSA and with the US having air superiority for almost every part of the war especially the vital Mississippi River front and the USA winning every naval battle except the second battle of gaveston bay and even then that was a pyrrhic victory for the AUS with thier navy never leaving port again due the the damage and losses they took in that battle and that's not going into how badly the three CSA and AUS managed thier war time economy or the political infighting during the war. Victory for the US was only a matter of how long and costly it would be.
 
As @Some new guy has stated, MacArthurite victory was assured from day one. The Naval Blockade was able to prevent the vast majority of the much needed foreign support from ever reaching the hands of the AUS or CSA. This was especially damning for the CSA when it came to food shortages as America's breadbasket was firmly in the control of MacArthur and Long. This might have been prevented if not for the Scorched Earth tactics employed by Eisenhower during the '38 Spring Offensive into Kansas and Nebraska.
 
I think ceasefire with PSA also play quite an important part. Wothout it the federal can’t relocate their troops to more important location.
 
I think ceasefire with PSA also play quite an important part. Wothout it the federal can’t relocate their troops to more important location.
(OoC here) It's already been established in the posts above that the PSA never came into existence or submitted to the will of MacArthur shortly after coming into existence.
The fact is the moment Doug managed to guarantee the loyalty of the West Coast
 

Anchises

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The second Canada intervened militarily, it was over. The CSA and the AUS had no chance after fighting each other to exhaustion over nearly a year in Virginia and Maryland. So when Canadian material flooded towards Denver, the Canadian Army stormed down Michigan and New England as the RCN made covert shipments from Europe impossible, the result was a given

Honestly on day one. People like too note about the famous generals who joined each the CSA or AUS but the vast majority of the rank and file along with thier equipment stayed loyal especially in the Army air crops and Navy which were the deciding factor in the war with the blockade of the CSA and with the US having air superiority for almost every part of the war especially the vital Mississippi River front and the USA winning every naval battle except the second battle of gaveston bay and even then that was a pyrrhic victory for the AUS with thier navy never leaving port again due the the damage and losses they took in that battle and that's not going into how badly the three CSA and AUS managed thier war time economy or the political infighting during the war. Victory for the US was only a matter of how long and costly it would be.

Combining these two answers gives us a clear picture.

The grave strategic mistakes the AUS and the CSA made on day one pretty much guaranteed their defeat.

The AUS and/or the CSA could have survived if they had played their cards right but ideology prevented that. With everyone going for the full price, trying to become the heir to the USA, it was guaranteed that the Feds would win because of structural, diplomatic, military and economic reasons.

1) CSA and AUS immediately lounged at each others throat. They were convinced that the "Ancien Regime" was basically finished and that the fight between the Revolutionary forces would decide the war.

Now we know that CSA and AUS were bleeding each other white, while MacArthur was busy shaping the U.S. military into a force to be reckoned with.

2) The CSA military basically was a labour union with tanks while the AUS military quickly became a militia with a few good generals.

a)The CSA never had many men with military experience to beginn with, their experiments with elected officers and soldier councils only made the situation worse. Leadership and training on every level were terrible and the only thing that kept them in the war was their material superiority. This material superiority wasn't as crushing as it seems as I will show.

Sure, French and UoB advisors helped but when the CSA actually started to listen it was a classic case of too little too late.

The CSA was never able to leverage its superior industry or conduct a modern war of movement. Later studies showed that the CSA military was unable to conduct combined arms offensives, that in average it took 4:1 superiority in infantry and 5:1 superiority in artillery to break through AUS lines and that friendly fire occured 40% more frequently than in the AUS military.

b) At the start of the war the AUS had a well lead military. However most of the technical specialists and most of the mid-level officers and professional NCOs followed MacArthur. So the ability of the AUS to absorb losses was fairly low.

The small AUS military at the start of the war won crushing victories against CSA militias and the Feds, who were in a state of chaos at this time. These initial victories already carried the fruit of defeat in them.

The AUS officer corps was bound by old southern honor rules and sustained the highest casualties among all participants of the ACW. After a few months losses already dilluted the quality of leadership.

Even more damaging was the rapid growth of the AUS military, young officers were promoted to early, experienced formations were torn apart to provide some backbone to greenhorns and new recruits weren't trained properly.

One year into the war general staff officers had to used as field commanders, two years into the war there weren't many people left that had the knowledge to properly handle artillery or how to service a tank.

Patton still tried to conduct sweeping offensives, he never understood that his army simply wasn't up to the job after the grueling losses in Virginia and Maryland.

3) The Feds actually had a working diplomatic corps and a bureaucracy that knew how to organize a state.

Good trade deals with Canada and Germany allowed the Feds to focus their industry. German optics, radios and high quality steel allowed the Feds to effectively produce high quality tanks. Canadian trucks and trains allowed the Feds to retain their logistical edge.

Sure, at the end the Feds were drowning in debt but neither the CSA nor the AUS had the trust to get credits in the first place. The CSA was basically isolated and had to rely on the UoB and the CoF, which both were busy with their futile arms race against Germany. The AUS had to pay for everything they wanted up front and in hard currency.

tl,dr: As soon as Huey decided that he wanted the whole cake he had lost. Huey could have edged out a little kingdom in the South, he got greedy and lost.
 
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Having played Kaiserreich before, I'm rather confused. What source or story is this working off of? I've never seen any official pronouncements on topics like this.
 
Having played Kaiserreich before, I'm rather confused. What source or story is this working off of? I've never seen any official pronouncements on topics like this.
OOC: It's (kind of) a dbwi that assumes the Feds won the 2nd ACW. This is simply asking when that victory became inevitable (ignoring the mechanics of Hoi4 or Darkest Hour) and weaving a loose story on that premise.
 
ooc: This video should give you some idea about the setting

I'm sorry. You misunderstand. I HAVE played before. I've had HoI4 since it came out, and I played Kaiserreich since shortly thereafter.

I'm itchy awaiting Man the Guns. I've wanted to make my old ships useful again for years. :noexpression:
 
I'm sorry. You misunderstand. I HAVE played before. I've had HoI4 since it came out, and I played Kaiserreich since shortly thereafter.

I'm itchy awaiting Man the Guns. I've wanted to make my old ships useful again for years. :noexpression:
Ooc: Ah ok then, my English is not that strong so I easily often misunderstand other.
:oops:
 
I feel like too many of these responses veer into determinism. There were any number of things that could have gone wrong for the Feds. A big one that jumps out to me is the possibility of Mexican intervention; historically Toledo viewed it as too risky and instead sent indirect support to the Combined Syndicates but had he lost the elections to Calles I can easily see Mexico intervening. For that matter, the Feds got very lucky in the Kentucky Campaign of June 1937. The officer Cadres of the Army of Virginia managed to escape allowing that force to be reformed much quicker. As it stands MacArthur only needed six months to fully reform the American army, which wasn't enough time for the Rebs to make serious gains. However, without those officers and soldiers, reforming the army could have been much more difficult.
 
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