Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg

To elaborate on my previous comment, I can perhaps see a case for appreciating the historical symbol of Huey Long as an economically progressive and unusually non-racist southern politician for his time (although the characterization of Huey Long as 'anti-racist' or even less racist than his colleagues is somewhat up for debate, especially in recent years : [content warning : racial slurs]

View attachment 599735

The fact of the matter is, however, that I simply cannot see any good reason to support Huey Long in the Kaiserreich Universe. For one, all of his economic policies can be done better by the CSA. Additionally, if you're adamant on retaining social democracy, I'm fairly sure the PSA has a social democrat route. Both the CSA and the PSA have infinitely more potential for democracy than the AUS, which is essentially doomed to some flavor of autocracy, ranging from a oligarchical welfare state to a nightmarishly racist abomination. Far from being the supposed anti-racist in our own timeline, Long sides with White Supremacists as well as literal Business elites, the latter of which hilariously seems to contradict his own supposedly economically populist positions.

At the end of the day? Even though I'm no fan of the guy, I feel like Long could be portrayed a lot better and more sympathetic in Kaiserreich, especially by ridding him at least of the support of the business elites.
Look up the "Home of the Brave" submod. It adds tons of paths for a few more civil war factions like bonafide Dixiecrats+Klansmen (and some industrialists) and a black rebellion in the deep South if said faction goes even more extremist. It also tries to make the characters more "historically accurate", like Pelley being mostly a weirdo Christian occultist with strange racial ideas rather than a true fascist.
 
To elaborate on my previous comment, I can perhaps see a case for appreciating the historical symbol of Huey Long as an economically progressive and unusually non-racist southern politician for his time (although the characterization of Huey Long as 'anti-racist' or even less racist than his colleagues is somewhat up for debate, especially in recent years : [content warning : racial slurs]

1605413718243.png
I... disagree with many of the conclusions Jeansonne has. I’m not saying Long would hold up to modern standards (as shown he had no issues with racial epithets), but he’s a historical figure and you need to put them in their time and place. You could level the “doesn’t hold to our standards” charge to near everyone born before 1940. And yeah Long never had to have address an election directly surrounding race, but the general concept of “race-baiting” is one Long by and large avoided. And the argument of “even if Long helped African-Americans economically he didn’t challenge Jim Crow” can easily be flipped to “when faced with the racism and Jim Crow of Louisiana Long still managed to spread his programs and benefits to African-Americans”. He certainly had the support and appreciation of African Americans for what he did and as far as I can tell he was not disrespectful to any African-Americans he interacted with. His ally in the senate Burton Wheeler flat out stated Long was better on race then every other southern senator.

The fact of the matter is, however, that I simply cannot see any good reason to support Huey Long in the Kaiserreich Universe. Far from being the supposed anti-racist in our own timeline, Long sides with White Supremacists as well as literal Business elites, the latter of which hilariously seems to contradict his own supposedly economically populist positions.
I honestly don’t necessarily disagree with any of this, which is honestly the center of my frustration with Long and the AUS. Kaiserreichs Long is a meme and a weird remnant of legacyKR that somehow was never changed. Despite my constant partaking in them, I’ve always thought discussions surrounding KR Huey are mostly unproductive because he’s so far removed from his actual self you’re essentially dealing with a fictional character that can be molded differently by each viewer.
 
Last edited:
I've been noticing more and more social conservatives being basically super reactionary. The Manchu Party in the Qing, the Prince of Eloquence path in the Ottoman Empire, and now Austrian Soccons who seem to be basically Austrofascists.

The Manchus' ideology shouldn't be taken that seriously as they're in China, and all pro-Imperial parties are/can be essentially AuthDem.

As for the others, yeah, it's strange. There are also Albanian SocCons who are pro-feudalism IIRC and I'm not sure if someone like Strom Thurmond shouldn't also be AuthDem.
 
I... disagree with many of the conclusions Jeansonne has. I’m not saying Long would hold up to modern standards (as shown he had no issues with racial epithets), but he’s a historical figure and you need to put them in their time and place. You could level the “doesn’t hold to our standards” charge to near everyone born before 1940. And yeah Long never had to have address an election directly surrounding race, but the general concept of “race-baiting” is one Long by and large avoided. And the argument of “even if Long helped African-Americans economically he didn’t challenge Jim Crow” can easily be flipped to “when faced with the racism and Jim Crow of Louisiana Long still managed to spread his programs and benefits to African-Americans”. He certainly had the support and appreciation of African Americans for what he did and as far as I can tell he was not disrespectful to any African-Americans he interacted with. His friend in the senate, Burton Wheeler, flat out stated Long was better on race then every other southern senator.


I honestly don’t necessarily disagree with any of this, which is honestly the center of my frustration with Long and the AUS. Kaiserreichs Long is a meme and a weird remnant of legacyKR that somehow was never changed. Despite my constant partaking in them, I’ve always thought discussions surrounding KR Huey are mostly unproductive because he’s so far removed from his actual self you’re essentially dealing with a fictional character that can be molded differently by each viewer.
I can accept the fact that there is nuance and discussion to be had on OTL Long's character. However, yes, I very much stand that KR Long isn't someone that anyone should un-ironically obsess over in a positive way.
 
I think that the counterbalance should be brought up that Huey's alliance with the corpos and Pelley is one that always breaks up shortly post-war, and he governs as a sort of leftier Putin (especially on economics).
 
I think that the counterbalance should be brought up that Huey's alliance with the corpos and Pelley is one that always breaks up shortly post-war, and he governs as a sort of leftier Putin (especially on economics).
By allying with these factions, he directly gives them a golden opportunity to seize power, which would not have been possible without Huey's "big tent" coalition. I believe that it is fair to place this horrendous failure in judgement onto Huey himself. Frankly, if he were to truly be portrayed as sympathetic, he should start the civil war as someone in a coalition with the syndicalists, not the white supremacists and corporatists.
 
By allying with these factions, he directly gives them a golden opportunity to seize power, which would not have been possible without Huey's "big tent" coalition. I believe that it is fair to place this horrendous failure in judgement onto Huey himself. Frankly, if he were to truly be portrayed as sympathetic, he should start the civil war as someone in a coalition with the syndicalists, not the white supremacists and corporatists.
I don't think he's supposed to be sympathetic so much as a tragic villain. Reed is a tragic hero brought low by his inexperience and uncompromising idealism, Olson is a tragic hero backstabbed by his treacherous cowardly underlings, and Huey is a tragic villain brought low by his own immense hubris.

MacArthur of course is just a freaking egomaniac.
 
Frankly, if he were to truly be portrayed as sympathetic, he should start the civil war as someone in a coalition with the syndicalists, not the white supremacists and corporatists.
The most realistic and “sympathetic” per say way to portray Long would to have his main allies be non-socialist Midwestern Progressives like the previously mentioned Burton Wheeler, George Norris, William Borah, and even the La Follette brothers and Floyd Olson, all folks he was friendly-to-allied with IRL.
 
Last edited:
I don't think he's supposed to be sympathetic so much as a tragic villain. Reed is a tragic hero brought low by his inexperience and uncompromising idealism, Olson is a tragic hero backstabbed by his treacherous cowardly underlings, and Huey is a tragic villain brought low by his own immense hubris.
Where would you place Garner and Landon, then?
 
Where would you place Garner and Landon, then?
Villain (sticks to a broken orthodoxy in the name of tradition and arguably actively facilitates America's collapse) and tragic/failed hero (tries to salvage a country that is imploding and fails due to lack of charisma, support, and ambition).
 
Villain (sticks to a broken orthodoxy in the name of tradition and arguably actively facilitates America's collapse) and tragic/failed hero (tries to salvage a country that is imploding and fails due to lack of charisma, support, and ambition).
The worst part about Garner on my opinion is that he is basically the "Everything is fine" kind of guy who would continue the same system that brough the civil war
 
The worst part about Garner on my opinion is that he is basically the "Everything is fine" kind of guy who would continue the same system that brough the civil war
Yeah, of the moderate candidates, Landon is inarguably heroic in that he recognizes that America is broken and tries to salvage the good parts while chucking the bad. Same with Olson but Olson is betrayed rather than failing. Garner is just a fucking moron who wants to Put Down These Rebels By Force.
 
I don't think he's supposed to be sympathetic so much as a tragic villain. Reed is a tragic hero brought low by his inexperience and uncompromising idealism, Olson is a tragic hero backstabbed by his treacherous cowardly underlings, and Huey is a tragic villain brought low by his own immense hubris.

MacArthur of course is just a freaking egomaniac.

The most realistic and “sympathetic” per say way to portray Long would to have his main allies be non-socialist Midwestern Progressives like the previously mentioned Burton Wheeler, George Norris, William Borah, and even the La Follette brothers and Floyd Olson, all folks he was friendly-to-allied with IRL.

Where would you place Garner and Landon, then?

Villain (sticks to a broken orthodoxy in the name of tradition and arguably actively facilitates America's collapse) and tragic/failed hero (tries to salvage a country that is imploding and fails due to lack of charisma, support, and ambition).

The worst part about Garner on my opinion is that he is basically the "Everything is fine" kind of guy who would continue the same system that brough the civil war

Yeah, of the moderate candidates, Landon is inarguably heroic in that he recognizes that America is broken and tries to salvage the good parts while chucking the bad. Same with Olson but Olson is betrayed rather than failing. Garner is just a fucking moron who wants to Put Down These Rebels By Force.

How would you describe politicians in the Union of Britain or the German Empire? Heroes or villains?
 
Top