Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg

I REALLY find extremely hard to achieve the same level as OTL, especially if Germany won the war, the antisemitism skyrocketed like that as a excuse for german defeat (such as it did through the russian whites)

The high number of german jews on left winger parts might be because they are in fact left wingers, it is like bavarians on a catholic party since bavaria is a conservative region
I'm not referring to Nazi-era attitudes, or even late-Weimar, but rather to the potential salience of the historical stereotype of monolithically suspect group loyalty. With parties like the DNVP/DVP relevant in the scenario, it's entirely possible the Kaiserreich's circumstances are conducive to an inflammation of accusatory rhetoric. As you say, I wouldn't expect it to coalesce around something as coherent as OTL's "stab in the back" mentality, but instead would posit the possibility of creeping paranoia as the most radical parties in the empire's Overton window appropriate the image of pro-Internationale figures to publicly justify their preexisting biases and explicit intentions to formally disenfranchise minority groups.
 
I'm not referring to Nazi-era attitudes, or even late-Weimar, but rather to the potential salience of the historical stereotype of monolithically suspect group loyalty. With parties like the DNVP/DVP relevant in the scenario, it's entirely possible the Kaiserreich's circumstances are conducive to an inflammation of accusatory rhetoric. As you say, I wouldn't expect it to coalesce around something as coherent as OTL's "stab in the back" mentality, but instead would posit the possibility of creeping paranoia as the most radical parties in the empire's Overton window appropriate the image of pro-Internationale figures to publicly justify their preexisting biases and explicit intentions to formally disenfranchise minority groups.
Then we agree
 
Then we agree
Indeed, we do. I just wanted to explain my reasoning and retrospectively check if my idea really was too close to OTL anywhere. Just trying to clarify the specific DNVP-type attitudes I meant since "Weimar-era" probably was too vague. Thanks for mentioning, I definitely don't want my AH theorizing to rely on parallelism.

But, for a new point of interest, since the latest update was on French tank stuff, are we now getting equipment updates on other factions or was that a one-off to explain why the CoF is geared toward alternate historical tactics?
 
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"Tanks" a lot for this update. Sorry about the bad pun but I couldn't resist it!

Any word on when the release of the National France rework can be expected?

The domestic cat ~ the solution to all Mankind's PURR ~ oblems. [Our elderly cat passed away recently and we've been discussing getting another; feels very quiet without him.]

Been thinking again about the National France rework and the role they gave De Gaulle in it.

My main issue with this remains the same I said earlier: De Gaulle can only be roleplayed as anti-Republican in Kaiserreich. The Devs do make a good point by saying it's likely the loss of WW1 and the exile could have radicalized De Gaulle into what they've made him in the mod. The issue is that in the past, they've seem more keen to leave how historical characters would evolve open to interpretation in the mod. The best example would be Edward VIII who has three options to how he would act in the mod:
  • He can actually care about being King and do his best to conform to the role that is expected of him. Something that could happen if you assume the British Revolution and the subsequent exile to Canada would have made him more responsible.
  • He can act pretty much like OTL and end up abdicating the throne.
  • Or he can actually revoke Parliament and essentially become a Fascist King. Just like you believe he would have been given his Nazi sympathies. And you could argue also that he might actually be more willing to go that road thanks to the British Revolution.
From my POV, De Gaulle should kind of be given the same treatment. They can definitely have him become far more authoritarian than he was, but there should also be a path where he actually follows something ressembling his OTL path. Not to mention that even if they make a good case for De Gaulle's evolution, there are also counter-arguments that can be laid out. De Gaulle did have sympathies for the Action Française in his youth, but there are hints he wasn't all about that. It is speculated that he was actually a Dreyfusard and he had contacts with people that don't really fit the traditionnal mold of the Action Française supporters, some in fact being quite the opposite. The best example would be Emile Mayer, one of the men De Gaulle credits as having inspired his theories about army mechanisation, who was a jewish officer with socialist sympathies. So, from my POV, there definitely is room for De Gaulle to not necessarilly have been radicalized by the events in Kaiserreich.

Another issue I've been having after analyzing it comes from the way the chain of events that lead to the Action Française taking over happens. De Gaulle in Kaissereich essentially belongs to a Young Guard that owe everything to Pétain. There is absolutely no problem with that: De Gaulle started his career as a protégé of Pétain so it makes sense he would be in that position in Kaiserreich. But... The issue is that the path where Pétain names De Gaulle as the successor to Franchet d'Espèray, De Gaulle will end up betraying Pétain down the line: that's what it feels like at least since Pétain is stated to retire as a broken old man in the Dev Diary... This is a bit problematic for me because it assumes De Gaulle would feel absoluely no loyalty to Pétain in the Kaiserreich scenario... When by all accounts they should probably be on very close terms, especially if Pétain is doting on De Gaulle so much he's willing to name him as his successor. It's not impossible for De Gaulle to betray Pétain at all, especially given how they drifted apart OTL, but the possibility of the two having a "Master and Apprentice" relationship should be there...

Because of all of this, I've been trying to think of a way to change the new National France lore that would actually offer more possibilities and variations to play as De Gaulle while still keeping the original ideas behind what the KR team has gone for.

The basic idea at the start is that Pétain is in power and has basically been handing power to his protégés in the governement, which leads to some worry from other officers. And it's stated that the army is essentially divided between Pétain loyalist around the Young Guard De Gaulle is part of and a Reformist faction that is led by Mordacq. My idea would be to add a third faction to that group in a form of Hard-line officers who think Pétain's leadership is too soft and thus want more aggressive actions to be undertaken. That third faction would obviously be receiving support for the Action Française and many officers belonging to it would be its supporters. Leading this faction would be Weygand, who did have very close ties to the Action Française OTL and didn't hide it. Another thing going for adding Weygand to the mix is that he was a very close subordinate to Foch, whom Pétain is supposed to have replace during the Weltkrieg according to the lore: this thus could give Weygand a good reason to resent Pétain. Weygand also had the advantage of being roughly the same age as Mordacq, which makes them polar opposites.

The key moment that kickstarts everything in National France is the resignation of Franchet d'Espèray that leads Pétain with the question of who to name as a successor. I wouldn't change the three options that Pétain has in his nomination: Mordacq, De Gaulle or neither. In my mind, there isn't necessarilly to consider Weygand as a potential successor: he's just seen as hard-liner and lacks the political weight of the other two. The same way, I wouldn't really change what happens in case Pétain names Mordacq or Pétain refuse to replace Franchet d'Espèray because I feel what happens in both scenarios is coherent.

The big change would be what happens when De Gaulle is nominated to replace Franchet d'Espèray. In the current lore, when Pétain does this, it is seen as though he is nominating a successor to his regime and it's seen as a bad omen by the liberals of the regime. Pétain then worsens the situation by moving agaisnt Mordacq and trying to remove him and his supporters, which backfires. At that point, Pétain either lets De Gaulle mediate with the Action Française for their support or refuse, which then leads us essentially back to what happens in the situation where Pétain named no successor.
What I'd change would be that instead for De Gaulle going to the AF right way, I would have Weygand offer its support to the Pétain in exchange for getting influence in the government. This will lead essentially to what happens on the current AF path, except that Weygand will work his way to gradually remove Pétain's men in favor of his own, until he forces Pétain to retire. Weygand will then restore the Monarchy.
If Pétain refuses, he will be more isolated than ever as is the case in the usual scenario. That is when De Gaulle comes in with a choice. As the second of the regime, he knows how weak Pétain's position is and how dangerous it is for the nation. As such, he knows he has to convince the Marshall to leave office and tries to do so. Pétain can either submit to De Gaulle, which leaves De Gaulle in charge of the Régime, or he refuses and sacks De Gaulle because he feels betrayed. Should the second option happen, we're essentially back to what happens normally in the rework.
If De Gaulle takes over, he finds himself in the position of a man who is lacking support of any sorts as he is essentially Pétain's heir and Pétain's late action have left anyone associated with him under suspicion. At that point, he knows he has to take action to consolidate his position. He's thus left with three options: go for a reconciliation with Mordacq, which opens the path for a Republican restoration, go to Weygand and invite the Action Française in, which opens the path to Monarchical restoration, or essentially follow the same path as Pétain if he'd been alone.
From my point of view, this keeps the spirit of the rework while still adding a more flexible way to play as De Gaulle in the game.

Thoughts?


In my Alt KR Timeline I wanted to have De Gaulle become leader of National France and lead them more towards the political centre ~ right and away from Fascism. I seem to have hit a bit of a brick wall with said Timeline at the moment but I am hoping I will be able to add the reworks of India and National France into the story somewhere.
 
Try a minor! New South Africa is great, especially if you go Red and go demsoc. It is literally about building a multiracial utopia, and facing the (many) pitfalls along the way with a determined faith in equality and democracy.

It's hard! You will be attacked by the Entente, so just garrison the coast and wait them out for a year. When you end the race-based passports, you will see slum formation, and it will take the better part of 3 years to get rid of those. But when you're done, you'll have a nice little country without apartheid that stands as a beacon to the world.
I‘m trying it out now and so far it seems pretty fun— the war with the Entente was fairly easy, they weren't even able to try a landing, although sadly my entire navy was sunk— then again I guess that means I have a chance to build a modern, more effective one now.

Clement Kadalie, the syndicalist party leader, is in charge, and it’s May of 1937– my plan is to join the Third Internationale at some part and create the African Front of the Second Weltkrieg.
 
Also, what are some good names for British or French “Revolutionary Guard”(in other words, units whose’ templates have upgraded to be “elite units”) Divisions?

Some of the ones I use for the Union of Britain(for example) are “Spirit of ‘25’“, “Marx”, “Engels”, “John Maclean“, “Leveller”, and “Britannia”.
 
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Glad they realized sand france is inevitably going to be super problematic, i just wish they give Algerian revolutionaries more importance beyond being the failure path.
 
Also, what are some good names for British or French “Revolutionary Guard”(in other words, units whose’ templates have upgraded to be “elite units”) Divisions?

Some of the ones I use for the Union of Britain(for example) are “Spirit of ‘25’“, “Marx”, “Engels”, “John Maclean“, “Leveller”, and “Britannia”.
"Peterloo"
"Sidney Street"
"Henry Hyndman"
"Keir Hardie"
"Charles Dilke"

Maybe even "Robin Hood" if you're so inclined.
 
I must say, I hate the patagonian worker's front, and would like to talk politely with someone who likes it to see their point.

Like, the impression I have by playing with them is that they are basically a "internationale occupation zone" in south america, almost as a protectorate, a colony if you will, led by national collaborators but still kept together by foreign aid.

This usually would be a problem but not enought for me to really finds a faction to be terrible as I consider them, but they are also imposing a draconian level of conscription maybe only similar to Long Yun in TNO mod, they are totalitarian, but not ideologically totalitarian, but because they exercise total control over the population there, there are conscription squads that basically moves into villages, take all men, women, old people and children and employ them to fight on the coming war with the north, I would say they are going even further than the nazis did with the volkssturm since the nazis didn't conscripted women (I have nothing against women fighting, my point on his argument is that they are forcing more people to fight than the nazis did).

You also can see how the locals hate this as a event allows you to install political comissars, and if you don't you get another event about people deserting.

The result of such draconian and totalitarian measures is that the war to unify argentina ends being terribly deadly, comparable to the balkan wars, the AI get easily over 200 thousand people dead for such a stretch of Land.
 
Today, december 7th nineteen-twenty twenty, a day that will live in infamy!

I, Gukpa, became the first brazilian to have a Huey Long T shirt!
 
I must say, I hate the patagonian worker's front, and would like to talk politely with someone who likes it to see their point.
Yeah, i feel like they should add some events after they win where they struggle to demilitarize because the military is so bloated by this point that its become it's own government. Maybe a military coup path where they become a military dictatorship, just with a Syndie coat of paint.
 
Yeah, i feel like they should add some events after they win where they struggle to demilitarize because the military is so bloated by this point that its become it's own government. Maybe a military coup path where they become a military dictatorship, just with a Syndie coat of paint.
The communist path is basically this, they even have conscription battalions that only exist to forcefully conscript people
 
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