Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg

At the end of the day, the Entente are the bad guys of the three starting factions. The Reichspakt and Internationale are both good in theory (Pakt: Guard the Balance--maintain stability so that another ruinous war hopefully doesn't happen; Internationale: Break the Chains--remove inequality and discrimination from society), but the Entente's theme (Reclaim the Birthright) is a fundamentally reactionary and anti-egalitarian premise. I can totally see a socdem Germany that transitions to full democracy and gives women the vote and anarchist France that makes no aggressive moves coming to blows because of some incredibly stupid tragic bullshit, but I can't see the Entente becoming democratic and still fighting for the "birthright" of some asshole who was squeezed out of the right vagina.

Essentially, the Reichspakt and Internationale are both good in theory but fully capable of being really evil. The Entente are skewed towards an anti-egalitarian, pro-inequality premise from their very tagline.
Eh....it depends. For example, in the Indochina game I am currently playing, Siam fell into a civil war which was won by absolutists. I’d say my syndicalist Indochina certainly has the moral high ground compared to them. But in my last Siam game, I reformed into a constitutional monarchy and went down the “A Liberal Siam“ path in the focus tree. My Siam was a peaceful and prosperous place.......until we were invaded by both syndicalist Burma, the Indochinese Union, and the Bharatiya Commune, lead by the totalist leader Bose. While I ultimately won the war due to the Reichspakt intervening, and grinding through Indochina from the far south all the way to Hanoi, it was a tough fight which saw most of northern Siam occupied. The syndicalists and totalists brutally invaded me for no other reason than “gib clay”.
 
KR isn't a bad to worse, I think you're looking at WH40K and to some extent wrt the realm of HOI4 TNO(through TNO has wholesome options in the form of C-NPP, a libsoc WRRF and the 4thint being restored after much hard work and effort)
The only difference between different factions and paths in KR for me is that some are more amusing to play than others. Can't really say that I sympathize with any of them from my IRL convictions (or maybe lack of thereof) standpoint .
 
How come you feel like it's being treated as a glorious paradise of map painting? I don't really play Kaiserreich much, so honestly I only know what I've heard people talk about with it.
Up until the most recent rework of Russia, the Internationale almost never won unless a player was playing as Britain or France. An Entente game was relatively easier because even if worst came to worst one could still ride the Reichspakt’s coattails to victory and potentially conquering substantial territories.
 
To me, KR is the promise of a slightly less dark, slightly more anachronistically gallant world if the Belle Époque had sort of slightly restored after the Great War, with mass atrocities written down because of Paradox official mod policy banning war crimes. The edgelord push to make it grim and gritty rather goes against the point of a Nazi-less world.
 
How come you feel like it's being treated as a glorious paradise of map painting? I don't really play Kaiserreich much, so honestly I only know what I've heard people talk about with it.
Because it downplays Edward VIII's intensely reactionary political views and feckless, dimwitted character, and portrays Canada as simultaneously an ultra-revanchist nation utterly dedicated to putting Eddie back on "his" throne, a mighty world power that still bankrolls about half of the old British empire AND the Royal Navy, and a vibrant democracy where the only real problem is those Francophones being unhappy that the Anglophones want to draft them into the stupid revenge war (even though NatFrance is just as dedicated to this stupid revenge war). It's a weird chimera that isn't fun at all.
How come? They start out as democratic, and democratic countries have in the past proven quite capable of getting their citizens to support stupid pointless conflicts. Hell, sometimes the bloodthirsty of the voters exceeded the government's own. Now, it would be very interesting if the desire for war was pegged to the actions of the internationale, so getting the people riled up to go kick out mosley is easier then doing the same for whoever is the radsoc leader, but to say that the people will not go to war unless forced by a totalitarian government is just not supported by history.
Why should some working joe in Toronto or Vancouver care about whether Eddie sits on a throne in Ottawa or in London, and why would such a voter be fanatically revanchist against the UoB to the point of absurdity despite no real actions being taken by the UoB against Canada?

Canada as presented makes no sense as simultaneously a fanatically royalist and revanchist regime and a vibrant democracy where nothing really bad happens despite a bloated military, poor economic situation, and complete separation from the metropole.
The irony about the new lore is that the logical conclusion is that it paints both the Exiles and the UoB as worse than the currently are. By having the early situation in the UoB more clearly inclusive of non-Syndicalist strains (given the descriptions of the Liberals as being a major party alongside Labour, and the Provincial Parliament being a thing to start with), then the 1925 Exiles have to be even more concentrated amongst die-hard conservatives and royalists with unsympathetic views, but then that fairly recent repressive turn in the UoB means the 1936 UoB is less democratic and tolerant of views outside the syndicalist consensus than the Current Lore!UoB. If nothing else, why have the repressive turn in the backstory and not as an option in 1936?
It just makes little sense to me. I'm not necessarily fanatically welded to Snowden as leader of the UoB at game start, but damn it, Mosley's evil should have some unique, English-nationalist flavor to it, and there should be more to the totalitarians than just "oh they're generically repressive". Generic repression is a thing for Business Plot America. Mosleyite Red Fascism should have some flavor to it.
Eh....it depends. For example, in the Indochina game I am currently playing, Siam fell into a civil war which was won by absolutists. I’d say my syndicalist Indochina certainly has the moral high ground compared to them. But in my last Siam game, I reformed into a constitutional monarchy and went down the “A Liberal Siam“ path in the focus tree. My Siam was a peaceful and prosperous place.......until we were invaded by both syndicalist Burma, the Indochinese Union, and the Bharatiya Commune, lead by the totalist leader Bose. While I ultimately won the war due to the Reichspakt intervening, and grinding through Indochina from the far south all the way to Hanoi, it was a tough fight which saw most of northern Siam occupied. The syndicalists and totalists brutally invaded me for no other reason than “gib clay”.
I did outright say that the Reds and Pakt are both capable of being bad, as they should be. The problem is that the Entente as presented are conceptually bad guys but are portrayed as near-flawless good guys in-game.
 
To me, KR is the promise of a slightly less dark, slightly more anachronistically gallant world if the Belle Époque had sort of slightly restored after the Great War, with mass atrocities written down because of Paradox official mod policy banning war crimes. The edgelord push to make it grim and gritty rather goes against the point of a Nazi-less world.
I don't want a grim and gritty world, I want one with some flavor and life that doesn't whitewash what is rather blatantly an authoritarian and reactionary regime and alliance.
 
Why should some working joe in Toronto or Vancouver care about whether Eddie sits on a throne in Ottawa or in London, and why would such a voter be fanatically revanchist against the UoB to the point of absurdity despite no real actions being taken by the UoB against Canada?
They shouldnt, and yet history is filled with examples of people like that caring very much about such fantasies.
 
They shouldnt, and yet history is filled with examples of people like that caring very much about such fantasies.
But an entire country? Willing to attack a much larger, more powerful country across a giant ocean with a rusting fleet just to put a horny reactionary asshole on a seat?
 
But an entire country? Willing to attack a much larger, more powerful country across a giant ocean with a rusting fleet just to put a horny reactionary asshole on a seat?
Well you dont need an entire country. Just enough of that country that those who are against the idea cant do much. And yes, such impulses can absolutely be found in history. Look at british society prior to ww1, interwar Japan, etc.
 
It just makes little sense to me. I'm not necessarily fanatically welded to Snowden as leader of the UoB at game start, but damn it, Mosley's evil should have some unique, English-nationalist flavor to it, and there should be more to the totalitarians than just "oh they're generically repressive". Generic repression is a thing for Business Plot America. Mosleyite Red Fascism should have some flavor to it.
To be fair, Mosleyite Red Fascism might still be in and with separate, unique flavour to the starting situation, given that Mosley is the deputy of the current chairman according to the comments and "there's definitely a lot more nuance to the paths, even Mosley has some good aspects to him".
 
I don't want a grim and gritty world, I want one with some flavor and life that doesn't whitewash what is rather blatantly an authoritarian and reactionary regime and alliance.
Oh I'm fine with portraying Canada is an autocratic military emergency state. I'm actually working on a fan work that's centered around that fact. The grim edgelord stuff is more like Reddit-Discord memes about Savinkov, or Pelley, and so on.
 
Well you dont need an entire country. Just enough of that country that those who are against the idea cant do much. And yes, such impulses can absolutely be found in history. Look at british society prior to ww1, interwar Japan, etc.
Interwar Japan is not a very good example of a pro-war democracy. Government by assassination and the ever-increasing influence of a completely detached-from-reality hard-right military clique is not a functional democracy.
To be fair, Mosleyite Red Fascism might still be in and with separate, unique flavour to the starting situation, given that Mosley is the deputy of the current chairman according to the comments and "there's definitely a lot more nuance to the paths, even Mosley has some good aspects to him".
I don't really like that idea of Mosley being a sidekick with some good points tbh. Mosley should be a 1984 homage, both because that's amusing and because there should be this aspect of a cautionary tale to his storyline. I actually like the idea of the 120-day TUC focus that opens Britain's gameplay, both for flavor and gameplay reasons. I love the idea of a nation at a crossroads, it should just have more social unrest flavor events to back it up.
Oh I'm fine with portraying Canada is an autocratic military emergency state. I'm actually working on a fan work that's centered around that fact. The grim edgelord stuff is more like Reddit-Discord memes about Savinkov, or Pelley, and so on.
Pelley is a total nightmare. But I detest memes on general principle at this point, especially reaction images and 4chan crap.
 
Mosley being a sidekick doesn't seem like it will be a major issue given the mentions of succession, which is presumably there Mosleyite ideas will take full bloom. But "some good aspects" can definitely go to more problematic, less interesting/amusing/cautionary places.
 
I just dont see much proof of the devs supposedly being heavily biased towards the right like some claim. They aren't quite biased to the left either, but rather they seem to be politically neutral and struggling over the balance of fun, realism, and the fact that they just don't have the manpower to do everything. Complaints over ideological bias in the game itself to me often seem to be "my favourite ideology isnt wanked as much as I wanted" more then anything else.
 
Mosley being a sidekick doesn't seem like it will be a major issue given the mentions of succession, which is presumably there Mosleyite ideas will take full bloom. But "some good aspects" can definitely go to more problematic, less interesting/amusing/cautionary places.
I've kinda laid out my ideal UoB setup already, but honestly, Mosley as Big Brother or a Big Brother wannabe has always been one of the "meme-y" legacy parts of KR that's actually freaking worked.
 
I just dont see much proof of the devs supposedly being heavily biased towards the right like some claim. They aren't quite biased to the left either, but rather they seem to be politically neutral and struggling over the balance of fun, realism, and the fact that they just don't have the manpower to do everything. Complaints over ideological bias in the game itself to me often seem to be "my favourite ideology isnt wanked as much as I wanted" more then anything else.
I strongly disagree. To me, it's about whitewashing the Entente--I hardly think that anyone could accuse me of being a fanatical defender of the pre-WW1 German Empire, yet I'm quite happy with how it works in-game.
 
I strongly disagree. To me, it's about whitewashing the Entente--I hardly think that anyone could accuse me of being a fanatical defender of the pre-WW1 German Empire, yet I'm quite happy with how it works in-game.
I think that issues with the entente are more the result there not being enough people to overhaul it's old barebones plot, rather then deliberate whitewashing, but I would have no problem with their overall starting premise being kept broadly the same rather then starting out as some kind of natpop alliance right off the bat.
 
Certain people in this thread seem to think Edward VIII was a baby eating, puppy kicking monster of the highest degree. In reality, he was a very complex figure and not Charles I reborn.
The dude was a spoiled brat who was buddies with Hitler. You can't get much worse than that.
 
The dude was a spoiled brat who was buddies with Hitler. You can't get much worse than that.
I mean...this guy existed:

Very, very hard to beat "Planned the logistics of a genocide for political points". There's being a bratty dick who shouldn't be in charge of an anthill, and then there's just fucking monstrous.
I think that issues with the entente are more the result there not being enough people to overhaul it's old barebones plot, rather then deliberate whitewashing, but I would have no problem with their overall starting premise being kept broadly the same rather then starting out as some kind of natpop alliance right off the bat.
They just issued an update to Canada that...overhauled its gameplay with a modified focus tree, new spirits, new events, new decisions, and new options, while leaving the plot intact.
 
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