Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg

So for the Union of Britain Fans out there, one of the Devs teased some stuff about the future UoB rework on reddit.
One thing I worry about is that there's a contingent - not on here, that I've seen - complaining about KR going anti-left (sometimes jumping on things like Ukraine's population being adjusted upward on account of no Holodomor as an example), and this will fuel that. I have thought that the UoB seemed oddly united behind syndicalism (with the exception of the Lawrence Coup, which instead became too quick and easy in HOI4 before being removed, thus in that one instance instead showing syndicalism as having much weaker popularity than it should have, and had a very binary perspective on things) without the kind of repression apparently now being introduced into the lore, but I feel that it might have been better to have more descriptions and events acknowledging that there are openly expressed opinions at least in the SocDem-SocLib range with sprinklings of the other further-right ideologies in the UoB, people expressing them just aren't in a position to come into power (well, syndicalist-aligned SocDem might have been possible, say as an option after an anti-Totalist coup/revolution). Instead the solution seems to have been to making the UoB more repressive, which does technically solve my complaint, but throwing out most of the previous This Is What the UoB Is in the process is a pretty big loss.
 
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One thing I worry about is that there's a contingent - not on here, that I've seen - complaining about KR going anti-left (sometimes jumping on things like Ukraine's population being adjusted upward on account of no Holodomor as an example), and this will fuel that. I have thought that the UoB seemed oddly united behind syndicalism (with the exception of the Lawrence Coup, which instead became too quick and easy in HOI4 before being removed, thus in that one instance instead showing syndicalism as having much weaker popularity than it should have, and had a very binary perspective on things) without the kind of repression apparently now being introduced into the lore, but I feel that it might have been better to have more descriptions and events acknowledging that there are openly expressed opinions at least in the SocDem-SocLib range with sprinklings of the other further-right ideologies in the UoB, people expressing them just aren't in a position to come into power (well, syndicalist-aligned SocDem might have been possible, say as an option after an anti-Totalist coup/revolution). Instead the solution seems to have been to making the UoB more repressive, which does technically solve my complaint, but throwing out most of the previous This Is What the UoB Is in the process is a pretty big loss.
If they seriously try to go this route, I will literally make a reddit account solely to complain, then I just won't play KR anymore. It's that cheap and nakedly pro-Entente, and considering that I already view the very idea of Canada as this happy democracy that's still single-mindedly focused on a pointless reclamation war to be a ludicrous fantasy at best, that's saying a lot.
 
The German East Asia AI is much stronger\ smarter than it was previously. They’ve actually sent their troops into Vietnam directly instead of launching nine million amphibious operations.
 
If they seriously try to go this route, I will literally make a reddit account solely to complain, then I just won't play KR anymore. It's that cheap and nakedly pro-Entente, and considering that I already view the very idea of Canada as this happy democracy that's still single-mindedly focused on a pointless reclamation war to be a ludicrous fantasy at best, that's saying a lot.
The former I get, but...why not just keep playing KR and don't get the updates?
 
I wouldn’t worry about the right wing shift of KR yet. While as a leftist familiar with the dark side of Anglo Canadian history, I rather despise Entente apologia, the image of the British empire and Canada as forces for good, or neutral powers, rather than imperialistic destroyers are so engrained in society that stuff like painting the Entente positively or trying to mix both anti and sympathetic ideas towards socialism is way to par for the course in western societies to really raise arms against effectively in this medium(game mod)

I think criticizing the portrayal of the Entente, while understandable is the least of our worries. It won’t really have any effect considering how deep the Britain and Canada did nothing wrong meme is ingrained in histography and can only be confronted by changing society as a whole.

I’ll also note that some people in that crowd tends to write off 99.99% of hoi4 mods as fascist enabling, even tno and twr despite them portraying the utter bankruptcy of Nazism. With regards to TNO they also tend to be in the “TEE NNN OHH bad because I can’t have a sane path with DEE ESS ARR and Kovner” which makes me somewhat disturbed. And I’m a diehard leftist myself who dosent trust Speer at all(more focused on resurrecting Internationale and Russia)

For instance when Cornel West came to speak at Ryerson University 3 years ago and said that Canada is a society America should aspire to, me and a few leftie Canadian friends collectively rolled our eyes. This shows how deep the “Canada good” meme goes. Even people that are against British imperialism can be counted on to ignore Canada’s brutal treatment of its First Nations or paint Canada as a happy democratic utopia. Just look at the love Trudeau gets for not being trump.

So Kaiserreich rightward shift tl;dr is while unfortunate, a product of its time that currently isn’t a risk factor, and it isn’t the worst in the anti socialist department either(looking at you cbts)
 
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I wouldn’t worry about the right wing shift of KR yet. While as a leftist familiar with the dark side of Anglo Canadian history, I rather despise Entente apologia, the image of the British empire and Canada as forces for good, or neutral powers, rather than imperialistic destroyers are so engrained in society that stuff like painting the Entente positively or trying to mix both anti and sympathetic ideas towards socialism is way to par for the course in western societies to really raise arms against effectively in this medium(game mod)

I think criticizing the portrayal of the Entente, while understandable is the least of our worries. It won’t really have any effect considering how deep the Britain and Canada did nothing wrong meme is ingrained in histography and can only be confronted by changing society as a whole.

I’ll also note that some people in that crowd tends to write off 99.99% of hoi4 mods as fascist enabling, even tno and twr despite them portraying the utter bankruptcy of Nazism. With regards to TNO they also tend to be in the “TEE NNN OHH bad because I can’t have a sane path with DEE ESS ARR and Kovner” which makes me somewhat disturbed. And I’m a diehard leftist myself who dosent trust Speer at all(more focused on resurrecting Internationale and Russia)

For instance when Cornel West came to speak at Ryerson University 3 years ago and said that Canada is a society America should aspire to, me and a few leftie Canadian friends collectively rolled our eyes. This shows how deep the “Canada good” meme goes. Even people that are against British imperialism can be counted on to ignore Canada’s brutal treatment of its First Nations or paint Canada as a happy democratic utopia. Just look at the love Trudeau gets for not being trump.

So Kaiserreich rightward shift tl;dr is while unfortunate, a product of its time that currently isn’t a risk factor, and it isn’t the worst in the anti socialist department either(looking at you cbts)
My problem with TNO is largely its main modder's rude, self-important, and nasty attitude, its simultaneous overreliance on shitty memes and surprise that shitty memes attract neo-Nazis off of 4chan, and its whitewashing of monsters like Speer. At least it doesn't whitewash all the Nazis like vanilla does. TWR at least points out that Speer was a monster, too, what with his economic plan being literally open slavery.

I will say this about Canada: You are at least somewhat more openly apologetic to the natives you ethnically cleansed than we are, and you have a certain public health benefit (which I'm pretty sure West was talking about in that talk you mention) that I would rather discuss in Chat.

That said, yeah, the idea that the Entente are this happy utopia that wants to invade the ebul fascist reds for the King and the democratic right of a hereditary sovereign to directly rule all of the conquered lands that are his birthright--ow my brain. Yeah, uh, that's not cool.
 
I wouldn’t worry about the right wing shift of KR yet. While as a leftist familiar with the dark side of Anglo Canadian history, I rather despise Entente apologia, the image of the British empire and Canada as forces for good, or neutral powers, rather than imperialistic destroyers are so engrained in society that stuff like painting the Entente positively or trying to mix both anti and sympathetic ideas towards socialism is way to par for the course in western societies to really raise arms against effectively in this medium(game mod)

I think criticizing the portrayal of the Entente, while understandable is the least of our worries. It won’t really have any effect considering how deep the Britain and Canada did nothing wrong meme is ingrained in histography and can only be confronted by changing society as a whole.

I’ll also note that some people in that crowd tends to write off 99.99% of hoi4 mods as fascist enabling, even tno and twr despite them portraying the utter bankruptcy of Nazism. With regards to TNO they also tend to be in the “TEE NNN OHH bad because I can’t have a sane path with DEE ESS ARR and Kovner” which makes me somewhat disturbed. And I’m a diehard leftist myself who dosent trust Speer at all(more focused on resurrecting Internationale and Russia)

For instance when Cornel West came to speak at Ryerson University 3 years ago and said that Canada is a society America should aspire to, me and a few leftie Canadian friends collectively rolled our eyes. This shows how deep the “Canada good” meme goes. Even people that are against British imperialism can be counted on to ignore Canada’s brutal treatment of its First Nations or paint Canada as a happy democratic utopia. Just look at the love Trudeau gets for not being trump.

So Kaiserreich rightward shift tl;dr is while unfortunate, a product of its time that currently isn’t a risk factor, and it isn’t the worst in the anti socialist department either(looking at you cbts)
My problem with TNO is largely its main modder's rude, self-important, and nasty attitude, its simultaneous overreliance on shitty memes and surprise that shitty memes attract neo-Nazis off of 4chan, and its whitewashing of monsters like Speer. At least it doesn't whitewash all the Nazis like vanilla does. TWR at least points out that Speer was a monster, too, what with his economic plan being literally open slavery.

I will say this about Canada: You are at least somewhat more openly apologetic to the natives you ethnically cleansed than we are, and you have a certain public health benefit (which I'm pretty sure West was talking about in that talk you mention) that I would rather discuss in Chat.

That said, yeah, the idea that the Entente are this happy utopia that wants to invade the ebul fascist reds for the King and the democratic right of a hereditary sovereign to directly rule all of the conquered lands that are his birthright--ow my brain. Yeah, uh, that's not cool.
With me, it's more that such a change seems to be a step away from the main appeal of the setting: the more potential for ambiguity.

So of course the Syndicalist nations can go Totalist. Having such a thing be impossible would be wrong - any new form of government can. But...part of the appeal of KR is that it's entirely possible to have Democratic Syndicalists on one side of WK2, Social Democrat Germany on the other, and they still go to war because stupidity.

Whereas making one faction white knights...
 
With me, it's more that such a change seems to be a step away from the main appeal of the setting: the more potential for ambiguity.

So of course the Syndicalist nations can go Totalist. Having such a thing be impossible would be wrong - any new form of government can. But...part of the appeal of KR is that it's entirely possible to have Democratic Syndicalists on one side of WK2, Social Democrat Germany on the other, and they still go to war because stupidity.

Whereas making one faction white knights...
The way I would do it is the Entente starts out led by natpop Canada, but when Eddie is coronated he's such a feckless moron that he gives democratic elements impetus to unite and fight back, which can potentially break the Entente and restore democracy to Canada but at the cost of you can't try to invade Britain.

An Entente victory should be a bad ending almost on par with Pelley.
 
IMO there are no good guys in KR.
Just like OTL - the scale starts at annoying and goes down from there.

But that's just my shitty opinion so who even cares.
 
I think that people are forgetting that this is a game where the player shapes the society they play as. You can have Canada be a shitty absolute monarchy trying to invade a broadly popular left-wing government in Britain or you can have a democratic nation liberating the island from the grip of Totalism. It's all up to you. Except for AI decisions I guess.

As for the rework, I would agree with either worffan's proposed rework where non-socialist ideologies remain popular and powerful enough that they can absolutely unseat the syndicalists from government in the elections if something goes wrong (some kind of disaster event chain perhaps), or with the official rework path of making it clear that yes, the syndicalists have in fact resorted to less then democratic methods to stay in power. But you cant have both like some seem to want.
 
IMO there are no good guys in KR.
Just like OTL - the scale starts at annoying and goes down from there.

But that's just my shitty opinion so who even cares.
KR isn't a bad to worse, I think you're looking at WH40K and to some extent wrt the realm of HOI4 TNO(through TNO has wholesome options in the form of C-NPP, a libsoc WRRF and the 4thint being restored after much hard work and effort)

With me, it's more that such a change seems to be a step away from the main appeal of the setting: the more potential for ambiguity.

So of course the Syndicalist nations can go Totalist. Having such a thing be impossible would be wrong - any new form of government can. But...part of the appeal of KR is that it's entirely possible to have Democratic Syndicalists on one side of WK2, Social Democrat Germany on the other, and they still go to war because stupidity.

Whereas making one faction white knights...
Agree on that, but I think there is still some room for ambiguity. Syndies still have a whole range of options, it isn't being closed down to Entente-Mittleurope good, Internationale bad.
 
At the end of the day, the Entente are the bad guys of the three starting factions. The Reichspakt and Internationale are both good in theory (Pakt: Guard the Balance--maintain stability so that another ruinous war hopefully doesn't happen; Internationale: Break the Chains--remove inequality and discrimination from society), but the Entente's theme (Reclaim the Birthright) is a fundamentally reactionary and anti-egalitarian premise. I can totally see a socdem Germany that transitions to full democracy and gives women the vote and anarchist France that makes no aggressive moves coming to blows because of some incredibly stupid tragic bullshit, but I can't see the Entente becoming democratic and still fighting for the "birthright" of some asshole who was squeezed out of the right vagina.

Essentially, the Reichspakt and Internationale are both good in theory but fully capable of being really evil. The Entente are skewed towards an anti-egalitarian, pro-inequality premise from their very tagline.
 
Agree on that, but I think there is still some room for ambiguity. Syndies still have a whole range of options, it isn't being closed down to Entente-Mittleurope good, Internationale bad.
If Kaiserreich didn't have the options of totalitarian Internationale vs. democratic Pakt, right-wing authoritarian Pakt vs. libsoc Internationale, libsoc Internationale vs. democratic Pakt, and Evil vs. Evil, it just wouldn't be very fun, and it wouldn't be Kaiserreich.

I guess my main problem is that the Entente are annoying in-game, as well as being a faction that I have built-in distaste for due to their premise and tagline, plus the way they're treated is increasingly Amusingly Horny King Eddie's Glorious Paradise of Hyper-Revanchist But Totally Democratic Map-Painting. Not to mention that they're a holdover solution from an edition that no longer exists intended to fill a hole that no longer exists.
 
If Kaiserreich didn't have the options of totalitarian Internationale vs. democratic Pakt, right-wing authoritarian Pakt vs. libsoc Internationale, libsoc Internationale vs. democratic Pakt, and Evil vs. Evil, it just wouldn't be very fun, and it wouldn't be Kaiserreich.

I guess my main problem is that the Entente are annoying in-game, as well as being a faction that I have built-in distaste for due to their premise and tagline, plus the way they're treated is increasingly Amusingly Horny King Eddie's Glorious Paradise of Hyper-Revanchist But Totally Democratic Map-Painting. Not to mention that they're a holdover solution from an edition that no longer exists intended to fill a hole that no longer exists.
How come you feel like it's being treated as a glorious paradise of map painting? I don't really play Kaiserreich much, so honestly I only know what I've heard people talk about with it.
 
At the end of the day, the Entente are the bad guys of the three starting factions. The Reichspakt and Internationale are both good in theory (Pakt: Guard the Balance--maintain stability so that another ruinous war hopefully doesn't happen; Internationale: Break the Chains--remove inequality and discrimination from society), but the Entente's theme (Reclaim the Birthright) is a fundamentally reactionary and anti-egalitarian premise. I can totally see a socdem Germany that transitions to full democracy and gives women the vote and anarchist France that makes no aggressive moves coming to blows because of some incredibly stupid tragic bullshit, but I can't see the Entente becoming democratic and still fighting for the "birthright" of some asshole who was squeezed out of the right vagina.

Essentially, the Reichspakt and Internationale are both good in theory but fully capable of being really evil. The Entente are skewed towards an anti-egalitarian, pro-inequality premise from their very tagline.
How come? They start out as democratic, and democratic countries have in the past proven quite capable of getting their citizens to support stupid pointless conflicts. Hell, sometimes the bloodthirsty of the voters exceeded the government's own. Now, it would be very interesting if the desire for war was pegged to the actions of the internationale, so getting the people riled up to go kick out mosley is easier then doing the same for whoever is the radsoc leader, but to say that the people will not go to war unless forced by a totalitarian government is just not supported by history.
 
My problem with TNO is largely its main modder's rude, self-important, and nasty attitude, its simultaneous overreliance on shitty memes and surprise that shitty memes attract neo-Nazis off of 4chan, and its whitewashing of monsters like Speer. At least it doesn't whitewash all the Nazis like vanilla does. TWR at least points out that Speer was a monster, too, what with his economic plan being literally open slavery.

I will say this about Canada: You are at least somewhat more openly apologetic to the natives you ethnically cleansed than we are, and you have a certain public health benefit (which I'm pretty sure West was talking about in that talk you mention) that I would rather discuss in Chat.

That said, yeah, the idea that the Entente are this happy utopia that wants to invade the ebul fascist reds for the King and the democratic right of a hereditary sovereign to directly rule all of the conquered lands that are his birthright--ow my brain. Yeah, uh, that's not cool.
The irony about the new lore is that the logical conclusion is that it paints both the Exiles and the UoB as worse than the currently are. By having the early situation in the UoB more clearly inclusive of non-Syndicalist strains (given the descriptions of the Liberals as being a major party alongside Labour, and the Provincial Parliament being a thing to start with), then the 1925 Exiles have to be even more concentrated amongst die-hard conservatives and royalists with unsympathetic views, but then that fairly recent repressive turn in the UoB means the 1936 UoB is less democratic and tolerant of views outside the syndicalist consensus than the Current Lore!UoB. If nothing else, why have the repressive turn in the backstory and not as an option in 1936?
 
Certain people in this thread seem to think Edward VIII was a baby eating, puppy kicking monster of the highest degree. In reality, he was a very complex figure and not Charles I reborn.
 
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