Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by RiverDelta, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. AeroTheZealousOne Closet Beutelist

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    I have a few favorites if you want to try them out. The Indochinese Union is a fun playthrough, sending the Germans home and bringing about true freedom to Southeast Asia. The anarchist path is non-negotiable and the most blessed option for the country.

    Some of my other favorites are Brazil, Nicaragua, Jabal Shammar, and the Netherlands.

    Fuhrerreich so far has my favorite Soviet Union focus tree with so many options on who can succeed Lenin and how they can industrialize themselves in good order.

    This is also my first time hearing about the CBTS Soviet tree, I'm kind of disappointed but either they'll come around or they won't.

    A little less disappointing, but at least that's a civil war than can be 100 percent avoided. ;)
     
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  2. Ulyanovsk Formerly Viralworld Donor

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    I suppose that makes sense within the lore of Kaiserreich - the Second Russian Civil War is an unrealistic mess and the establishment of a USSR that’s pretty much the same as that of ITTL Lenin’s failed state doesn’t really make much sense. Do you know if they are reworking the whole Kerensky Russian Republic scenario? This is one of the worst parts of the lore in my opinion and it is badly in need of revision, it makes no sense that the White generals like Denikin, Vrangel, and Yudenich subdue the Reds and then they literally just return Kerensky, the embarrassed and thoroughly discredited politician that the victorious warlords of Russia literally have every reason to despise.
     
  3. Ulyanovsk Formerly Viralworld Donor

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    Hmm, I haven’t had the time to check out Fuhrerreich - I’ll have to give it a go later and see how it is, thanks for the suggestion!
     
  4. Nyvis Well-Known Member

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    Yeah no one seem to be interested in good/accurate portrayal of the soviet union. To be fair, with the starting date, there isn't much to do except display Stalin's paranoia along a single part, it's too late for it to branch out significantly.

    TWR may get interesting about it, even if it's silly at times.
     
  5. Ulyanovsk Formerly Viralworld Donor

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    Im hoping TNO comes through given their dedication to “realism” and good storytelling/flavor, although the “Soviet Union” in that timeline would be almost unrecognizable from OTL. Plus they seem to be going all out in grimdark-ness with pretty much every path being a horrible mess, but given the setting perhaps that’s fair to an extent.
     
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  6. Nyvis Well-Known Member

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    Zhukov looks like a pretty good path. But yeah the soviet union would be quite different there. It already is thanks to no Stalin, in fact, since the official lore is that it lost the war under Bukharin.
     
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  7. LordInsane Supporter of the Alliance

    Sheer inertia drags against, as I understand it. Kaiserreich has the issue that it literally started as a mod with pretty much the premise you cite (it's slightly more the Whites establishing a proper united front with Kerensky, the embarrassed and thoroughly discredited politician, as a figurehead, that allowing them to subdue the Reds, and then somehow Kerensky sticks around until 1936), the CP victory only came later, when All the Russias became Kaiserreich - and that was still over a decade ago.

    On a related note, last I heard you can still transition to a Soviet state in the Russia rework, but not through a civil war and it uses dynamic trees and cosmetic tags, so you're still RUS.
     
  8. AeroTheZealousOne Closet Beutelist

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    Without context, here are all of the possible post-Lenin leaders that I am aware of:

    * Mikhail Tukhachevsky
    * Nikolai Yezhov
    * Vyacheslav Molotov
    * Sergey Kirov
    * Grigory Zinoviev Leon Trotsky
    * Nikolai Bukharin
    * Alexander Shliapnikov
    * Kliment Voroshilov

    Not sure who their Soviet Dev is but I personally like how they went with it.
     
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  9. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red

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    TNO is a joke at this point, honestly. I played the demo, it had some good ideas but the execution was very poor, with a bland linear path, lots of overwritten events that don't really affect anything, a deliberately "authoritarianism is good because people are too terrible to make democracy work and also hope is a lie" attitude, and a social development system that in my opinion does a terrible job of modeling how social changes actually work in real life.

    TWR looks more realistic so far (the Atlantropa thing in TNO is especially ridiculous, considering that IRL (a) that land would be useless and (b) actually building the dam would probably be nearly impossible even for a stable superpower economy) and doesn't have blatant Speer apologism. And it has so many paths for the rump USSR! From "black comedy" (Zhukov moves the entire NKVD to a barren island and then tests nukes on their heads) to the actually hopeful (an OTL professor can take over the post-Beria USSR and transform it into what looks like a semi-functional democracy, if you can survive the inevitable confrontations with the Nazis and the other Russian warlords) to the straight-up weird (a slightly insane German expat who's gone native and wants to launch a straight-up crusade against the Nazis, not that anybody in Russia's really going to need much convincing to go to war against literal Nazis).

    Also the sheer horror of Reinhard Heydrich systematically murdering three million people and building a resort on their graves is somehow more existentially disturbing than anything TNO and its farcical warlords, meme villains, and comically over-complicated civil wars has yet done.
     
  10. Gukpard hominem populist

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    I was excited for the DNVP, I didn't even mentioned the soviet tree until someone else mentioned.

    That being said, I mentioned how they portrayed the Nazi Racial Laws and how I found it a way to represent the damage done to the player by taking a very stupid focus, something that even the PR says how "There is no reason to take these focus apart from Role play, since they only hurt you". I stand by that point.
     
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  11. Kol Well-Known Member

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    The name of federalist forces is the national defense army (国防军)it was revealed in the progress report
     
  12. Guaire Celt from Galicia

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    This is objectively false. TNO has already shown many paths that are good, such as Ciano's Italy and Speer's or Spiedel's Germany
     
  13. Ulyanovsk Formerly Viralworld Donor

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    I was more generalizing, I’ve just noticed a trend on the discord that if anyone brings up some sort of revolutionary change in Germany or the East that isn’t in some way a continuation of the fascist regime or objectively disgusting and murderous, the dev(s) pull up with a very grimdark attitude and explicitly say nothing humane could really come out of it (see DSR, the Jewish partisan groups, etc.)

    Not saying it’s explicitly wrong for the setting, but it is a running trend at least I think I’ve picked up on that they’re shooting for - the world is pretty dark after all
     
  14. 1SaBy Enlightened Radical Alt-Censtrist

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    I think the lore is that Germans force Kerensky back in exactly because every else hates him in order to make Russia unstable.
     
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  15. Ulyanovsk Formerly Viralworld Donor

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    So Russia would essentially be a German satellite state? Kerensky probably wouldn’t manage to be a stable head of state without White forces being strictly kept in check by Germany which is a commitment I don’t think the Kaiserreich would waste their resources on. The White generals are at least monarchical, and both Kerensky and the generals fought for the Entente against Germany so there’s still that lingering about. The generals who won the civil war would also very likely be trying to depose him from the start.
     
  16. 1SaBy Enlightened Radical Alt-Censtrist

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    Hence the failed Kolchak coup, I guess.
     
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  17. AeroTheZealousOne Closet Beutelist

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    I find that you and I share quite a bit of common ground on ideological matters but that we completely disagree on each other's views of TNO*. Mind you, it is a demo and they did rush it and Orenburg was pretty much destined to be dysfunctional in their current state** and Panzer can be a bit... eccentric at times, the systems of social changes and economic simulation were not all that usable then, but I was quite intrigued and fascinated about all the events between the four countries and reading the events and internally stating "oh dear" hundreds of times yet appreciating the dark humor in the events of Magnitogorsk and the Black Bandits. The way things look right now TNO is probably going to blow Kaiserreich right out of the water in terms of content, even if the backstory had a few liberties in it.

    In any case, Thousand-Week Reich is definitely the more "down-to-earth" of the two mods with a more realistic premise and outcome and I'm actively looking forward to them as well, though I really should catch up on their development diaries sometime soon. The rump USSR in that mods looks fun as hell from your descriptions, so I'm definitely going to go read up on this.



    *Though I do agree with you on Atlantropa - while it makes for an interesting story and I'm willing to mentally handwave it purely for the sake of that, your points plus the process of building such a large dam (let alone a series of dams) at the edge of the Mediterranean and draining it into the middle of Africa between the late forties and the fifties is quite literally unfeasible. The reason it hasn't been removed at this stage is because it's quite well ingrained into TNO's lore and gives Hitler's former allies a reason to flip him the bird and split from the Axis in the postwar world. I'm not sure exactly whether to call it "apologism" per se, he's still doing a lot of terrible stuff like letting war criminals get free in order to "liberalize" the Nazi state and its economy, but at the end of the day a Nazi is still a Nazi and the reforms were only done out of pragmatism and not as a true believer in freedom and democracy.

    **When you played the demo, I'm not sure if you were aware that there actually is a path to remain LibSoc as Orenburg and succeed in pulling off those reforms while keeping both Malenkov and Burba out of power. It does involve dividing the council as little as possible and saving up a lot of political power to make it work, but it is quite doable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  18. Gukpard hominem populist

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    There is this speer documentary on youtube (arr!), something that it is said that there it is like the perfect quote is:

    "There is no such thing as a good nazi, and even if this was possible, Speer would be as far away as possible from that."
     
  19. AeroTheZealousOne Closet Beutelist

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    That's exactly right.

    Also quoting my post I realized I made a typo, thanks for inadvertently letting me know to fix it!
     
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  20. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red

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    I think Panzer is a lot like SM Stirling as a writer. He should've just done a novel instead of a mod, because the demo at least wasn't very fun to play. It was literally just sitting there watching focuses tick down for hours and sometimes reading an event about Russians being jerks to each other.

    The thing about Orenburg that really defines the entire mod for me is that someone basically proposes "hey how about we literally just replicate the American presidential system and have regular elections?" and both the authoritarians unite to take that group down ASAP. Also Burba is portrayed remarkably positively for a petty despot. The whole experience--and I played all four factions, and did both paths for Orenburg (I did try to avoid picking a chairman but I never managed to get it to work so I figured it was one of the shitty "failure is the only option" paths--was boring, in fact the only humor that actually worked was Lysenko the mad scientist and that got old fast. The whole experience was dull and the "humor" was basically edgelord "dank meme" crap.

    TWR at least managed to get the jarring tone shift of black comedy suddenly becoming horror right. "Ha ha this infamous Nazi is running a resort, what a hoot--jesus fuck he murdered HOW MANY PEOPLE to build the resort on their bones??" That's a lot more horrifying than Apocalypse Cultist Himmler because it's such a banal reason to commit appalling evil, and reinforces the top-to-bottom inhumanity of the Nazi regime. Less a supervillain and more just "what the actual fuck is wrong with this guy?"

    Also Speer's slavery economy tree and Zhukov's "nuke the NKVD, then shoot Konev just to be sure" plan to fix the USSR drew a chuckle out of me. The latter is something of a meme but it actually makes sense in the context of a post-Beria rump USSR in limbo.

    Here's some of the options for TWR's USSR:
    Vasily Zaytsev: https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/ccye3f/the_final_nkvd_tree_zaytsev/
    Zhukov dealing with Beria's legacy: https://i.redd.it/9hsnztzs96931.png
    https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/c7o26s/director_secretary_what_is_going_on/
    https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/c7aurc/the_single_most_miserable_oath_for_the_union/ (Kuznetsov is a doomed path but at least making everything into a gulag is just a little amusing)
    https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/c6x2ad/mr_konev_this_is_for_the_grand_marshall/ Stalin Jr.
    https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/c3z7d9/purging_is_goodright/ Konev is like Pinochet except with planes instead of helicopters.
    https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/c5xapx/the_only_non_socialist_ussr_leader/ Weird but amusing option.
    https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/c367ks/the_final_of_the_socdem_nkvd_trees/ Vigdorova is an economy nerd and has a very hard but peaceful reclamation plan.
    https://i.redd.it/4xoigjxmtg531.png "Fyodor Ivanov" is a renegade German with a quasi-Nietzschean philosophy who apparently believes that the Russian people's continued survival and will to resist proves them a superior race to the Germans. Or something.
    And this is Yuri Orlov, who's a real person and a professor OTL: https://i.redd.it/uvyzxzmmw8531.png https://i.redd.it/tl8tu7l3dl631.png https://i.redd.it/et9m80s15ke31.png He's a well-meaning socdem idealist who can take over after Molotov promises reforms, tries to turn tyrant, and is killed for it.

    Zhukov's future nuclear test site: https://old.reddit.com/r/twrmod/comments/ccld02/everyones_favorite_future_nuclear_test_site/

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/468937771516690432/591641539164373012/SS_Faction_Teaser.png Himmler's Germany (jesus fuck everything to do with him and Heydrich is balls to the wall horror, like Gotenland)

    Also, TWR revolutionary France (I think after communist resistance overthrows the French State):
    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/468937771516690432/602194247592181772/FRASocMLTeaser.png
    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/468937771516690432/613099184161030172/FRA_Minet_Teaser.png
    I really like these two for some reason. They came to the Revolution (tm) bright-eyed and idealistic, and a decade or so of being beaten out on the anvil of life later, they have literally nothing left but the Revolution (tm).