Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by RiverDelta, Dec 30, 2017.
Good thing the devs disagree with you
I admit I might not have got that as he never actually told me that. Apologies.
In fact, Ma Hongkui, the ruler of Ningxia would probably defeat the "Khan of Khans" and still have time for his wifes, listening to some songs, and eating lots of ice cream!
That's one impessive map. Vive la Revolucion!
Does anybody know when the new version of KR comes along? I'm getting sick of these updates breaking my saves.
A teaser for that Wang-ker:
So much later, feeling quite stupid, I realised a possible explanation for why Liangguang only has one path that leads to genuine democracy in China, despite that explanation really being apparent when the Liangguang PR was posted: Chen Mingshu's path doesn't lead to it not because it isn't genuinely democratic, but because he is part of the Left-KMT, so it will be the actual KMT tag, the one in JiangFu, whose paths (quite likely with the options influenced by things like KMT paths in other tags) decides how genuinely democratic Left-KMT (or if a Left-Right reconciliation happens, as the Minquan Moderates description seems to suggest is possible, KMT) Chinese unification becomes.
Yeah, I'm guessing that southwestern China (Hunnan, Yunnan, Liangguang, JiangFu, maybe Sichuan) will work similar to Central America and at some point if all of them are ruled by either federalists, Left-KMT or Right-KMT, they will just merge voluntarily under the Liangguang, Kuomingtang or Yunnan tag, respectively. Or if the SocLib compromise happens between both KMTs.
My current guesses for genuine democracies are Chen's Federalists, Soong's SocDem KMT and the compromise KMT.
I suspect one of those may be a trap of sorts, possibly the Compromise KMT, given that there were "one of like two genuine democratic paths". I could be wrong here though.
May be. We don't know after all and I certainly wouldn't put it past the KR team not to do something like that.
The wording of "like two genouine democratic paths" is uncertain though. The dev who used it might not know for sure, so I guess there might be let's 2-4 genuinely democratic paths.
Does anyone have a guess if Fengtian might lead to something like that? I honestly don't know.
I think Fengtian can't lead to that as Fengtian. Possibly the Japanese have an option to coup the marshal in favour of underground democratic movement? Personally though I think its unlikely.
Chen's Federalists seem very likely to be a possible path to genuine democracy in China - the other Liangguang paths seem iffier or too much set to lead into another tag. We know that so for as the Liangguang dev knew none of the PRs before Liangguang had a path to it, so that means the LEP rump, Yunnan, the Qing/Zhili and Shandong most likely do not have such paths. When it comes to the KMT... I think it might depend on how, and to what degree, KR wants to play with expectations. Given the dev comments on how the CoopRev Minquan will "still execute you if they think you're a Hanjian.", shortly followed by ""Think" is the key word in my above comment though.", and how we know the CoopRevs have poor relations with other democratic-desiring movements, they seem a more obvious candidate for good intentions going bad, their paranoia perhaps leading them to cracking down too broadly during the tutelage period for there to be a functional opposition willing and able to operate within the system by the end (which you kinda need for a genuine democracy). Compromise KMT has advantages there in that its leadership has more non-KMT ties and by its nature it needs to, well, compromise more with liberal Chinese movements... but of course, specifically because it looks that way the KR devs might make Compromise KMT a trap and CoopRev work out in the end.
The Yunnan Dev said in the KR Discord says that Zhu Peide (the Right KMT guy in Yunnan) is aligned politically with Sun Fo, so Zhu Peide triumphing over Li Zongren for Right KMT leadership and Sun Fo taking over the Left KMT would probably be how the two KMTs reconcile.
Going back to the Yunnan progress report, I noticed that there was a dev comment that mentioned Zhu Peide's political alignment with Sun Fo, but IIRC at the time it hadn't been made clear Sun Fo was with the Left KMT, just suggested he was classified as SocLib and was KMT, and it was four months ago, so it is good to have confirmation that plans haven't changed there.
Fengtian has a disabled Democratic path right now in its Focus Tree but who knows if that's still valid as it's been there forever. I'm assuming a Fengtian update would be one of the last ones before the China update is released so we probably won't see it for awhile.
Hey guys, the Krasnacht dev answered some of my questions on how come the Canadians had a revolution there. Your thoughts?
In 1925, when the British exiles conduct a mass exodus to Canada, the Canadian government is essentially couped and the political system is shattered. This means that Canadian democracy (which wasn't very democratic in the first place) is actually gotten rid of, except in a limited, formal sense. The other thing is that the British Empire logically experiences a total economic collapse. Britain is lost, two thirds of India is lost, the colonies in Africa and Asia are almost entirely lost. The London Stock Exchange, one of the most important stock exchanges in the world, is gone. Realistically there should be a worldwide depression from this point, and Germany would isolate itself from the effects as much as possible by implementing protectionist policies and effectively looting its colonies in Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia. The rest of the world should be experiencing a depression worse than the Great Depression of OTL -- and the remainder of the British Empire would be the hardest hit. KR does not represent this due to unknown reasons, but since Krasnacht takes certain steps to rationalise the KR lore, we are operating under the assumption that the Canadian economy is really, really awful. There is a food shortage, a housing shortage, and an overabundance of labour. To deal with the exile problem, the government would allow exiles to purchase large tracts of farmland for cheap, and they would begin to push out the smaller, poorer farmers who were previously there (see the law of the centralisation of capital). A significant amount of Canadian industry was already British-owned before 1925; this share would only increase, as exiles buy up capital from American and Canadian capitalists. This would lead to a profound sense of oppression, and a high level of poverty and starvation among the Canadian working class. Homelessness, famine, labour camps, all these would afflict the working class. Support for socialism could only increase under these conditions.
When the American Revolution kicks off, the Canadian government decides to militarily intervene. This causes a backlash by the Canadian working class, which leads to a total breakdown of bourgeois civil society and the beginning of a civil war, in which Red American troops support the Canadian revolutionaries. With the socialists having mass support from workers and poor farmers, it doesn't take long for the counterrevolution to be smashed.
She also answered my question on how the CoF avoids the USSR's economic problems, your thoughts?
The reason the USSR had issues with pollution, famine, etc. was because the economy wasn't planned enough, i.e. administrative incompetence and unaccountable bureaucrats. The Ukrainian famine was caused by a combination of drought and administrative incompetence. I recommend Hillel Ticktin and Donald Filtzer if you're interested in reading more about Soviet economic planning.
Tickin's thesis is that the USSR didn't actually have a true planned economy (i.e. it didn't operate according to the law of value or the law of planning, but in fact operated according to no coherent economic law of motion), because it didn't have a democratic feedback mechanism that allowed bureaucrats to make adjustments based on actual need. France in KN does not have this issue, because there are multiple democratic feedback mechanisms to help state planners. An example of economic planning from OTL that did include a democratic feedback mechanism was Allende's Chile, with Cybersyn (which still had issues, don't get me wrong, but these issues were somewhat different from those of the Soviet system).
This actually makes a lot of sense. KR's '20s probably were a lot less pleasant than OTL's.
Not - really they just replace the senate with the house of lords. Does not seem undemocratci to me
The same person as before has now leaked Ireland rework.
Same as before, sent through the PMs on reddit.
Separate names with a comma.