Kaiserreich complaints and changes you would like to see?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Modern Imperialism, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. HIM Dogson Rationally Royalist

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    Annunzio's regime is literally called Legionary; I think he falls under that category. Really Savinkov is the only non-Integralist Natpop who doesn't have active bigotry that is stated (some Imperial Brazil focuses imply that Carles is brutalizing the Patagonians) so I don't think it's useful to make something distinct for him. Honestly I kind of want Savinkov to be reworked into a genuinely evil racist who will commit genocide against Germans, but whatever.
     
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  2. AZNMAGICMAN Well-Known Member

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    Though, D'Annunzio didn't really harbor any bigotry towards minorities aside from Austrians for its dominion of Italy.

    Also Savinkov was married to a Jewish Woman. And well Savinkov's Ideology, while it focuses on Pan-Russianism, Savinkov however it viewed all minorities within Russia as Russians. I dont see Savinkov as a Hitler (Although they did share some views Pan-Russianism and Pan-Germanicism) rather a Mussolini due to Savinkov's history with being affiliated with Socialist movements.
     
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  3. Ferd42 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if this could be futher moderated into a rightwing good idealogy, simlar to synciatism is to communism?
     
  4. HIM Dogson Rationally Royalist

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    Given that the territory Legionary Italy claims includes a lot of Austrians should they win ethnic cleansing or outright genocide seems inevitable.

    Savinkov's loyal minorities idea firstly doesn't include every minority he'll conquer (I'd imagine the Finns and Poles wouldn't be looked upon kindly, for example) and secondly the loyal minorities apply to minorities as a group, not as individuals. If you're part of a group that Savinkov views as disloyal (Baltic Germans or Poles, for example) you're still fucked.
     
  5. Modern Imperialism Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn’t the Legionaries be for integration? They are made up of mostly non-French people or people from the colonies? Shouldn’t the Authoritarian Nationalist be bigoted ones? I do agree with the Catholic and monarchist one those but I feel like they would end up targeting Muslims while trying to integrating non-Muslims Africans. Maybe try to use Catholicism to unite Africans under a more French identity. Catholic Church tells Africans they were the first to condemn slavery and believe all are equal under faith so any Africans who convert is given citizenship. They could also play up Muslims as a common enemy to both Africans and French people. They could create a alliance with the Papal State to help liberate Italy and Mainland France from the syndies. This means a italy reunited under the pope and a reactionary catholic monarchy regime in France. They both could do this by allying with Germany who agrees to help them if they respect the status quo regarding their holdings and gains from ww1. Maybe this France has focus tree events like de-Islamization or Catholic Mission.
     
  6. AZNMAGICMAN Well-Known Member

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    The Integralists only care about their Country, Religion and their Kingdom. And well they accept people regardless of race as long as they accept Catholicism.

    Whereas Corneliu Codreanu's Movement the Iron Guard was referred to as the Legion of Archangel Michael or the Legionairy Movement. The same with William Dudley Pelley's Group being called the Silver Legion. And well both had bigoted policies where they believed minorities are a problem for their countries. Plus the bigoted National Populists use Legions to refer to their movement.

    Authoritarian Nationalists, I believe they don't really have a problem with minorities and only care about their nation.
     
  7. Modern Imperialism Well-Known Member

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    When you said legion I thought Foreign Legion. My bad
     
  8. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    Whatever you think about the Yang 2020 and the Yang Gang phenomenon, one thing is clear: Kaiserreich needs to incorporate the Technocracy movement into North America somehow.
     
  9. AZNMAGICMAN Well-Known Member

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    What ideology would the Technocrats fall into? Paternal Autocrats or Authoritarian Democrats?
     
  10. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    I need to dig up my old posts on /r/Kaiserreich, but honestly they can fit in anywhere, except maybe among the Federalists. Technocracy fits in well as another weird non-leftist populist ideology in the Kingfish's court along with Coughlin's Social Justice, Townsend's Old Age Reform, and Milo Reno's agrarianism. (William Z. Foster called them "panacea mass movements" and viewed them as dangerous potential rivals to orthodox communism.) Howard Scott was personally pro-Soviet and there's a left-wing edge to Technocracy revolving around Harold Loeb and there's this article about how Marxist Herbert Marcuse shared ideas with them, I guess, so they could be part of the CSA. To add even further confusion- there was a faction of Technocrats or perhaps a spin-off called the Utopian Society of America, which was based out of Los Angeles. They were basically technocracy ideas + weird Masonic type rituals. I think they might have been associated with Upton Sinclair's EPIC movement, so they might even be considered at least Social Democratic if not further leftist. Finally they were also present in Canada, particularly in the west, and the director of the local Technocrat chapter there was literally Elon Musk's grandfather.

    So yeah, economic turmoil breeds crazy schools of thought (as we're seeing with the Yang phenomenon), and the Technocrats can pretty much fit in anywhere. And if the devs did yet another ACW rework and added even more factions... well Howard Scott basically ran a good amount of the movement out of the Columbia University campus along with some other academics, so maybe that could be where a Technate faction could be based at. Come to think of it I guess they could fit into the existing New England as well.

    I just realized you wrote "ideology" and not faction. I've already listed some ways they could be leftist, but they could definitely be right-wing as well. Howard Scott kind of became a cultish leader (see current day online Technocracy kooks who still cite his writings) so he could be PatAut. There's also some infamous quotes where he basically endorses ethnic/cultural cleansing of Catholic minorities from North America. (He also became very anti-Vatican later on as he got even kookier.) And as with the aforementioned panacea mass movements in the AUS, there's always a possibility that a populist non-leftist movement might turn hard right. Of course, the weirdo thing about Technocracy is that it's explicitly anti-populist, and pro-elitist, in its ideology, but it's populist in the sense that regular folks suffering from the Depression (I think mostly they were middle class urbanites) supported it because it offered a vision of a better future.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  11. AZNMAGICMAN Well-Known Member

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    You know, I can't help but imagine the Technocrats being the PatAuts of the AUS, I mean considering their ideas and etc. Also I would prefer that Moseley's WPC be the National Populists of MacArthur's Junta, I mean Moseley would seem a better fit staying loyal to the Government (All the while preping a National Populist coup against MacArthur). He was also Fascistic and his rhetoric strikes me as Populist with what him having speeches blaming the Jews, that and he did collaborate with American Far-Right Agitators like George E. Deatherage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  12. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    In my personal take I had Moseley be the NatPop who split off of the Federalists, while Pelley split from the AUS. Long proceeds to evacuate to the Great Plains and joins the agrarian Populists there. The Technocrats also join the AUS but they mostly do their own thing and be weird and invade the Pacific Northwest for no reason.
     
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  13. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    There’s also one minor one-

    4. Esoteric (Shangqing Shangdong/Tianguo, Masonic Liberia, Triads Legation Cities, hopefully Caodaist Vietnam will be added)

    Pelley’s America and Bloody Baron Mongolia are similarly weird but their major characteristics are different (prejudice and murder, respectively)
     
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  14. AZNMAGICMAN Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of that, I am beginning to think more and more that there should be an Entente National Populist option. So like people willing to trade Democracy for Ultranationalism to reclaim the Birthrate.

    And well I did have some ideas for Entente National Populists in National France and Canada.
    • Croix-de-Feu (Francois de la Rocque)
    • Imperial Federation Party (Rotha Lintorn-Orman)
    The Croix-de-Feu was a real party, however surprisingly they weren't Anti-Semitic and even condemned it. As well they refused to collaborate with French Fascist Groups like Jacques Doriot's PPF who were Pro-Nazi Germany. As well in the 1934 Stavinsky Affair when various Ultranationalist and Fascists were rioting, the Croix-de-Feu refused to riot. However in the events of Kaiserreich I could see that changing, they still reject Anti-semitism and they are really the same, although where unlike their OTL counterparts, Francois de la Rocque turns the Croix-de-Feu into a radically anti-syndicalistic and extremely revanchist group, whose goal is to reclaim France and have France be a National Populist Republic.

    Meanwhile for the Imperial Federation Party, I don't really like the name United Empire Loyalists, thus thought a rename would be nice. Also they are led by Rotha Lintorn-Ornan, who in OTL was a drug-addicted Fascist and a Suffragist. Although I can also see other people like Adrien Arcand lead for her, since Rotha wasn't exactly stable. Also their goals like the Croix-de-Feu are to reclaim Britain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  15. LendleAlba Longist

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    You could have the bolded intersect interestingly with a Sorelian France - IIRC of the out-and-out Totalists in the 3rd Internationale, they're the most overtly anti-Semitic.
     
  16. AZNMAGICMAN Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to see the Sorelians clash with NatPop France in North Africa. Especially you have half of the French Fascists in OTL either being Sorelians or Croix-de-Feu in KRTL.

    Also even in KR, I still sse the CdF as the relatively same party as OTL, Nationalistic, Corporatist and Militarist. Although they still reject anti-semitism, even in KRTL, but that being said they could use propaganda denouncing Sorelian anti-semitism.
     
  17. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red

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    The Sorelians seem to have a base in remnant anti-Dreyfussard voters, French nationalism, and rabid antisemitism. They're the most Nazi of the Commie Nazis in-game, Mosley's more straight-up 1984. I'm really hoping for a significant rework of France soon to give the various factions more flavor.

    In fact, that's one of my only really big complaints about KR. Communard France seems really bland and kinda generic right now.
     
  18. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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  19. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red

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    That's actually more like what I proposed for Britain in another thread, my idea for France was basically "the "elections" are more like parliamentary negotiations following the elections at the start of 1936, and the Jacobins and Travailleurs square off, then if neither pulls an early win the Anarchistes and Sorellians come into play, the Sorellians are hardline nationalists and you kinda have to work to get them in power and keep them in power, but they go full war cult, Anarchistes become the main anti-Jacobin bloc if the Jacobins win or the Travailleurs collapse in feuding after the first couple leadership ballots (and will coup the Jacobins if they go too evil too fast), the Travailleurs have to appease the Anarchistes just enough to take control, Jacobins have to harness the Anarchiste-Travailleur split and avoid letting the Sorellian nuts have too much airtime, sort of thing. A more dynamic power struggle like what's currently implemented for the CSA and AUS post-2ACW, but more sprawling because there's more time for it to happen in. Basically, 1936 should be about the power struggle, 1937 about the Swiss crisis, 1938 about buildup, and 1939 about the war starting.
     
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  20. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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