What if after the surrender of Germany Kaiser Wilhelm II decided against abdication? Would he be able to hold Germany together? In this alternate history he would blame his power hungry military dictators (Hindenburg & Ludendorff) on the downfall of Germany and try to soften the bad impact on his public image shifting the public hate to the high command. Please explain your reasoning for your vote. Would communist revolutionaries overthrow him or would loyalist groups such as the Freikorps protect his seat of power?
Kaiser Wilhelm II
- Thread starter Willy
- Start date
Even IOTL he (almost) had to be forced to abdicate as he seemed to have escaped into a Willy-Wonderland-state-of-mind at that point. It quite some effort to wake him up to grasp that the troops weren't anymore 'listening' to the Kaiser.
The militaries, at that point of time Hindenburg and Groener - not Ludendorff anymore - together with every other military at the HQ as well as the Crown Princeat would put Willy by force into a sealed railcar and move him ... elsewhere ) most likely to the Netherlands as IOTL).
The militaries, at that point of time Hindenburg and Groener - not Ludendorff anymore - together with every other military at the HQ as well as the Crown Princeat would put Willy by force into a sealed railcar and move him ... elsewhere ) most likely to the Netherlands as IOTL).
Deleted member 94680
It entirely hinges on the attitude of the Heer to the Emperor.
There’s a possibility in the abdication scenario as happened OTL that if Wilhelm had “held his head” he might have ridden out the immediate call for his abdication and remained as a figurehead for the post-WWI Germany.
You have to address the attitude of the WAllies to his continuing on the throne and whether the SPD would accept it as well.
There’s a possibility in the abdication scenario as happened OTL that if Wilhelm had “held his head” he might have ridden out the immediate call for his abdication and remained as a figurehead for the post-WWI Germany.
You have to address the attitude of the WAllies to his continuing on the throne and whether the SPD would accept it as well.
The SPD, specifically Ebert from what I've seen, was inclined to keep the monarchy as a ceremonial one. So if the allies said that any deal hinged on his abdication but one of his sons was acceptable then it could be somewhat likely Wilhelm would hand over in due course, the Crown Prince might be possible but one of his own sons may assume the throne as some sort of compromise.
In My opinion had Wilhelm II not made abdication of throne
The Part of Germany Army loyal to him would simply deal with SPD, just like most communist they deal with in 1918, simply execute them...
The Part of Germany Army loyal to him would simply deal with SPD, just like most communist they deal with in 1918, simply execute them...
In Kaiser Wilhelm II: A Life in Power, Christopher Clark states that if Wilhelm hadn't left Berlin for Spa on October 29th, 1918, “the throne might have remained intact”. Critically important was that Wilhelm fled Germany and sought asylum in the Netherlands, which thoroughly discredited the institution of the monarchy.
Despite Germany's loss in the Great War, the vast plurality, if not outright majority, of Germans had a very strong emotional connection to the monarchy even into the early Weimar era. For example, as the Empress's body was translated to Berlin in April, 1921, it was said that "an unbroken human chain" formed across the country culminating at Berlin where 200,000 mourners gathered, many of whom spent the night.
If the attachment to the monarchy was this strong historically, it would be much stronger if Wilhelm had stayed in Berlin.
Despite Germany's loss in the Great War, the vast plurality, if not outright majority, of Germans had a very strong emotional connection to the monarchy even into the early Weimar era. For example, as the Empress's body was translated to Berlin in April, 1921, it was said that "an unbroken human chain" formed across the country culminating at Berlin where 200,000 mourners gathered, many of whom spent the night.
If the attachment to the monarchy was this strong historically, it would be much stronger if Wilhelm had stayed in Berlin.
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I'd wager it was Hindenberg and co's plan to cement power under themselves, as most of the Army was loyal to the Kaiser (something that the Field Marshals blatantly lied about), and the socialist forces would have been supressed earlier if the Germans (under Hindenbergs plan) hadn't decided to try to invade France just as the Americans arrived. after that assault failed it broke the armies morale, causing a mass rout; while the garrisonless cities were basically taken over by armed socialists just like in Austria & Hungary.
Really Wilhelm should have just courtmarshalled them, partially for their own incompetence, and also for subverting the power of the Kaiser over the course of the war, refusing to tell him what was actually going on, basically limiting him to a ceremonial leader, giving commands in his name, without even telling him what they were or entailed; censoring almost all information from the front - rerouting his own surprise inspection of the front lines to make sure he never actually saw the appauling conditions under which men fought in his name; lying about the threat proposed by enemy powers for their own ambitions (like telling him to take the Schlieffan plan, even though he was advocating for the Ost-plan, because he unlike his generals, actually understood the threat posed by Russia), ignoring his own actual understanding of his fellow monarchs (and very spot on paranoia) and their governments, and isolating him away from positions and offices he was actually good at managing , such as technological innovation, logistics and infrastructure.
These Idiots weren't even using captured foreign lands for German food and resource productions, with Hindenbergs own plans being so stupidly applied that they forgot to expand enough coal mines, and produce enough trains, so that by 1917, when they actually started doing something about their original problem, they couldn't supply the army, infrastructure and civilians enough, whereupon he decided to let the cities starve in exchange for his ludicrously (like Goering levels) mismanaged supply program. This of course made worse by the fact their genius battle plans resulted in the deaths and enlistment of millions of german workmen because of their brilliant western front tactics of assaulting, while the best course of action (that they eventually came too) should have been to either fortify, of if unable to do so, retreat to more strategic grounds, do some counterattacks from your new positions before they can entrench, maybe even implement salvage and scavenge doctrines taking enemy ammunition, guns and helmets for repurposing for the war effort.
Really Wilhelm should have just courtmarshalled them, partially for their own incompetence, and also for subverting the power of the Kaiser over the course of the war, refusing to tell him what was actually going on, basically limiting him to a ceremonial leader, giving commands in his name, without even telling him what they were or entailed; censoring almost all information from the front - rerouting his own surprise inspection of the front lines to make sure he never actually saw the appauling conditions under which men fought in his name; lying about the threat proposed by enemy powers for their own ambitions (like telling him to take the Schlieffan plan, even though he was advocating for the Ost-plan, because he unlike his generals, actually understood the threat posed by Russia), ignoring his own actual understanding of his fellow monarchs (and very spot on paranoia) and their governments, and isolating him away from positions and offices he was actually good at managing , such as technological innovation, logistics and infrastructure.
These Idiots weren't even using captured foreign lands for German food and resource productions, with Hindenbergs own plans being so stupidly applied that they forgot to expand enough coal mines, and produce enough trains, so that by 1917, when they actually started doing something about their original problem, they couldn't supply the army, infrastructure and civilians enough, whereupon he decided to let the cities starve in exchange for his ludicrously (like Goering levels) mismanaged supply program. This of course made worse by the fact their genius battle plans resulted in the deaths and enlistment of millions of german workmen because of their brilliant western front tactics of assaulting, while the best course of action (that they eventually came too) should have been to either fortify, of if unable to do so, retreat to more strategic grounds, do some counterattacks from your new positions before they can entrench, maybe even implement salvage and scavenge doctrines taking enemy ammunition, guns and helmets for repurposing for the war effort.