Admiral Beez
Banned
it's not a bad option. Sail the whole force into the DEI. Interned for the duration, personnel live the tropical life.
Kaiser and Konig Albert stuck in Pacific 1914
- Thread starter Catspoke
- Start date
BlondieBC
Banned
Douala can easily handle the ships. The issue will be that Douala will be more of anchorage than a good naval port. The ships can also go to SouthWest Africa. At the start of the war, the only Entente warship in the West African area is a French gun boat. Assuming the ships make a run for Douala or SWA, these colonies will likely last longer than OTL. The questions then comes to what will be the British reaction.
What happens to the ships after the war, then? Are they handed over to the Dutch navy?
Königsberg was a headache because she was a 4000 ton cruiser that could retreat upriver, out of range, while still having the potential to break out and cause Emden-esque havoc if she wasn't watched. 25000 ton battleships with twice the draft and more than twice the beam can't do that. If they did try to cause trouble East of Suez (assuming they can find the coal to keep mobile) I suspect they'd eventually run into the Kongos, and come second.
Remember the Kongo of ww1 was a far cry from the kongo of ww2.
The ww1 kongo was a rather typical British battlecruiser, we all know how battlecruiser perform against battleships.
I could see that happening. Strassburg gets commissioned as the third cruiser, and the Dutch get the Battleships they wanted, though I could easily see them taken out of service after a few years due to the cost and being considered aggressive, as well as the cost of maintaining them. I suppose the turrets might be kept for future use.
nbcman
Donor
According to the Hague Conventions in Article 12, the Germans would need to pay the Dutch for all expenses related to their internment. Assuming the Allies don't pressure the Dutch for the return of the ships, the Dutch could take the ships as payment for the costs of interning the ships and the sailors during the war.
The odds are good that the ships would be in decent shape, since, IIRC, The Hague Treaties of 1907 also allow the crew of an interned warship to maintain it, although not to have enough people on board to effect an escape to sea. That makes them more marketable to the Dutch.
Driftless
Donor
The British & Americans might be quite content for the Dutch to keep those ships, especially if they're in the DEI
Is Luderitz bay in SWA defendable enough and big enough a port (they visited the place in OTL)? I thought Swakomond was just a jetty sticking out into the ocean so thinking that really wouldn't be a good place.
If their presence there can trigger a bigger Boer revolt then much has been gained.
From your UBoat TL research Douala due to its unique geography seems defensible with some landed secondary armament and good gunners and the warships positioned well. At least Kamerun conquest would be delayed.
Ultimately the British or Japanese where ever they end up are going to want to bring 3 modern Battleships. If it is a blockade situation then they have to bring more since all can't be ready all the time.
If the ended up someplace defensible like Douala or Tanga, then that is a major distraction for the British with perhaps major implications for Gallipoli or Mesopotamia or Flanders if they assemble a major force to deal with these.
If the ended up someplace defensible like Douala or Tanga, then that is a major distraction for the British with perhaps major implications for Gallipoli or Mesopotamia or Flanders if they assemble a major force to deal with these.
BlondieBC
Banned
The East African ports of poor choices, even if one ignores the distance. The main port was limited to entry via a small opening in a reef or sand bar. There is also a lack of need supplies and infrastructure.
BlondieBC
Banned
My understand is that both ports would work ok. I have tended to classify ports as anchorages, ports, and bases (often fortified). In terms of supporting a BB, both these ports are anchorages. The ships can certainly fit into these facilities, but they will lack both the need supplies (port) and repair facilities (bases) to support a BB. So in many ways, it does not matter too much where these ships go in the Atlantic coast of Africa. They will be a safe anchorages where need supplies will have to be brought in on freighters. And there are no substantial defensive bonuses to these locations unless you can buy some guns or mines from South America or the USA and ship in by ship. Both may well be possible, it just depends on aggressiveness and luck of the Germans.
Now to be fair, I avoid SWA in ATL because I believe that major fortification in SWA will trigger an British reaction much faster than in Kamerun. It is really a writer style choice that is more cause by what I like to write about than the most likely options.
Now to morale and the land war. The sailors from these ships are a huge boost in the military forces of any German colony the arrive at, and this is before we strip armament off the ships to use as artillery. Southwest Africa is much more defensible with a few thousand extra German military personnel. It would be interesting to see how much better East Africa goes for the Germans if the South Africans spend another year or two dealing with SWA. Like many things in ATL, honest butterflies often show up on the other side of the world in WW1 or WW2. Or at least the other side of Africa. IMO, if I was to start writing a ATL with these ships going to SWA, they are a fleet in being that causes fits for the British Navy and delay the loss of SWA by a year or two.
If these ships go to Kamerun, the Germans probably don't lose the coast line until 1916 or later, and Kamerun holds til at least very late in the war.