Just what would the Arrow look like?

MacCaulay

Banned
Yes. I'm obsessed with the Arrow right now. Your normal tank-obsessed MacCaulay will return in awhile.

I was watching an Avro film of the Arrow, with a Canadair Sabre following it out onto the ramp before a test flight. The first thing I noticed was just how big the Arrow was: the Sabre was barely 2/3 the wingspan and length. The second thing I noticed was that I was having kind of a hard time tracking the RCAF Sabre against the background due to it's camouflage.

The RCAF paint scheme in the 1960s was interesting, as it was almost a regular forest green-and-black. In that it was very different from the USAF which preferred what was called "air-superiority" camouflage, normally silver or gray.

So I was wondering...has anyone seen any drawings or photos of what the Arrow would've looked like in service?
 
The question leaves me breathless. Photo's of a non-existing aircraft don't usually exist in this dimension. The Arrow was meant to operate at altitude, so ground-based cammy colors would not be relevant. You seem to have caught Arrow fever. I'm not a doctor but I dressed like one once for a costume party. I recommend drinking lots of orange floats and eating cashews and chocolate.

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what the Arrow would've looked like in service?

Obviously it would look cool!

Its the same as how the TSR2 would look in RAAF servce. It too would look cool.

Thanks BTW Mac, your obsession with the Arrow has got me thinking of the RAF, RAAF and RCAF all with Arrow, TSR2 and Harriers. The real problem is what does the HMAS Australia (HMS Centaur) have, Crusaders or just Skyhawks.
 
The air superiority versions probably wouldn't have much in the way of paint. It's just excess weight at that point, and many RCAF aircraft of the time had bare metal finishes or just enough to preserve it. If the Arrow ultimately evolves into a ground-pounder (as I had it do in African Superpowers :D) it would need camouflage then.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
these are mine



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That refuelling probe is the shit, dude. I'm looking at my diecast model right now and wondering just how I could manage that. So I'm assuming you went with the Sparrow-3 as the missile?








For some reason, it just looks right in Japanese colours. That was a great job doing the camo, too! I tried to paint an F-14 of mine in those colours and failed miserably. It's hard to get that blue right.


This plane is kinda ugly. Its too boxy somehow.

I'm noticing a trend. I don't think you like delta wings.
 
The RedTop missiles are a nice touch but the Arrow was meant to carry it's armament internally. There's a polystyrene Lightning sitting somewhere armed only with Adens not to be fired. The canopy mod has my official seal of approval. The Arrow didn't need the ungainly fuel probe, since it had sufficient range.
 
Has anyone got any models or pictures of a mud-mover Arrow? I'm envisaging a kit where the missile bay doors are removed and a pallet fitted (at sqn level, not depot level) that can hold bombs flush or semi-recessed rather than on TER or MERs on wing pylons.
 
I like the Mk6 with the bigger cockpit windows. While I doubt the version would be built the canopy with much more glass would be retrofitted.

So assuming some sort of fourth empire cooperative joint project actually pans out what was the actual market for the Arrow? The RAAF bought 116 Mirages, half being air to air, so a one to one replacement would see perhaps 58 going to the RAAF at most. South Africa bought about 58 Mirage III in the 60s, so these could be Arrows. In the RAF the Arrow would be the replacement for the Javelien and Lightning, so perhaps 165 like the original order for Tornado ADVs. Canada got 112 Voodoos and built some 200 F104s but I'd imagine in a quid pro quo arrangement most of these would become TSR2 and Harriers, so perhaps Canada would buy 160. So perhaps 400 Arrows would be built in the 60s to accomodate the cosy Commonwealth arrangements?
 
I'm noticing a trend. I don't think you like delta wings.
Its not so much the delta wings but the shape/placement of the engines. They protrude too much near the cockpit. This looks especially glaring in the picture with Japanese colours.
 
I like the Mk6 with the bigger cockpit windows. While I doubt the version would be built the canopy with much more glass would be retrofitted.

So assuming some sort of fourth empire cooperative joint project actually pans out what was the actual market for the Arrow? The RAAF bought 116 Mirages, half being air to air, so a one to one replacement would see perhaps 58 going to the RAAF at most. South Africa bought about 58 Mirage III in the 60s, so these could be Arrows. In the RAF the Arrow would be the replacement for the Javelien and Lightning, so perhaps 165 like the original order for Tornado ADVs. Canada got 112 Voodoos and built some 200 F104s but I'd imagine in a quid pro quo arrangement most of these would become TSR2 and Harriers, so perhaps Canada would buy 160. So perhaps 400 Arrows would be built in the 60s to accomodate the cosy Commonwealth arrangements?

You could easily get Britain to buy upto 300 Arrows. If, after the introduction of the javelin the government decides that seperate development costs and very limited flexability of the Lightning is simply too much then it's not infeasable to have them join the Canadian government in funding the Arrow in return for the right for say AVRO UK to produce them. This could also mean that countries which bought the lightning in OTL (Kuwait and Saudi Arabia) might also buy the Arrow. Iran is also another possability. I don't, however see S. Africa buying the Arrow - they have no need of a high altitude point defence interceptor but that still leaves almost 600 Arrows to be built with many serving right up into the 1980's at best and perhaps a few into the early 90's.

As a side note, perhaps if you manage to avoid the Starfighter bribes you might even get Germany to buy a few Arrows. Germany was very much interested in the British Saunders-Roe SR.177 - the British Arrow equivalent and only bought the F-104 Starsighter because of the bribes.

Russell
 
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