Just one Greater Bulgaria Timeline

[Hvalrossen]

Alternate Timeline
- During WW1 Bulgaria joins the Entente. Bulgaria gains Turkish Thrace and Istanbul.
- During WW2 Bulgaria joins the Axis. Bulgaria cedes similar to the "Treaty of Neuilly" to Yugoslavia, while keeping OTL Fyrom.
- The Soviet Union gives Bulgaria Southern Dobruja as in OTL following WW2.
- Following WW2 Bulgarians in Greece revolts wishing to join Bulgaria the nation state. The Soviet Union supports Bulgarian expansion due to Greek aligment with the West(USA,UK,France,Canada,Australia,New Zealand, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden).During this war Bulgaria achives the conquest of Greek Macedonia.
A picture of ATL Bulgaria

Relevant links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Neuilly-sur-Seine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Greek_Civil_War#Exodus_of_Slav-Macedonians_from_Greece
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Thrace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(Greece)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Dobruja
Questions/Discussion
1. What do you think of my timeline?

2. How would Bulgarian culture be affected by this different political history compared to OTL?

3. How would this Greater Bulgaria impact the geopolitics of Balkan and Europe at large?

4. What kind of demographic policies would Greater Bulgaria have? Similar to OTL or different?

5. How might the alternate economic history of this ATL Bulgaria be like compared with OTL Bulgaria?

6. Would this ATL Bulgaria be more pro-Russian than OTL?

7. Might this ATL Bulgaria join NATO and EU as OTL Bulgaria did?

8. Longterm how would relations between Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey be in this timeline?
Challenge
Have this Bulgaria increase it's population to 20, 50, 100, 200 million inhabitants by 2018. The higher the population, the better.

 

[Redcoat]

You can come up with these things yourself imo.

 

[Hvalrossen]

You can come up with these things yourself imo.

I can.

 

[cmakk1012]

How does Britain not support Greece in their Civil War as OTL? This was when the Bulgarians/Macedonians that supported Union with Bulgaria got kicked out

 

[Hvalrossen]

How does Britain not support Greece in their Civil War as OTL? This was when the Bulgarians/Macedonians that supported Union with Bulgaria got kicked out

Britain may and likely would support Greece during it's civil war as in OTL. But the Soviet and Yugoslav support for a direct Bulgarian invasion will be victorious. Keep in mind that this Bulgaria is bigger than in OTL. In addtion large volunteer batallions from Eastern Europe(Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, USSR) might fight on the Bulgarian side, some of these volunteers might be motivated by Pan Slavism.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Alternate Timeline
- During WW1 Bulgaria joins the Entente. Bulgaria gains Turkish Thrace and Istanbul.
- During WW2 Bulgaria joins the Axis. Bulgaria cedes similar to the "Treaty of Neuilly" to Yugoslavia, while keeping OTL Fyrom.
- The Soviet Union gives Bulgaria Southern Dobruja as in OTL following WW2.
- Following WW2 Bulgarians in Greece revolts wishing to join Bulgaria the nation state. The Soviet Union supports Bulgarian expansion due to Greek aligment with the West(USA,UK,France,Canada,Australia,New Zealand, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden).During this war Bulgaria achives the conquest of Greek Macedonia.
A picture of ATL Bulgaria
View attachment 384623
Relevant links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Neuilly-sur-Seine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Greek_Civil_War#Exodus_of_Slav-Macedonians_from_Greece
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Thrace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(Greece)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Dobruja
Questions/Discussion
1. What do you think of my timeline?

2. How would Bulgarian culture be affected by this different political history compared to OTL?

3. How would this Greater Bulgaria impact the geopolitics of Balkan and Europe at large?

4. What kind of demographic policies would Greater Bulgaria have? Similar to OTL or different?

5. How might the alternate economic history of this ATL Bulgaria be like compared with OTL Bulgaria?

6. Would this ATL Bulgaria be more pro-Russian than OTL?

7. Might this ATL Bulgaria join NATO and EU as OTL Bulgaria did?

8. Longterm how would relations between Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey be in this timeline?
Challenge
Have this Bulgaria increase it's population to 20, 50, 100, 200 million inhabitants by 2018. The higher the population, the better.

Gaining that much land from WWII despite being on the losing side is a tad contrived.

As to number 4, would Bulgaria engage in population exchanges? It's taken on a lot of non-Bulgarian land.

For 6 I imagine it won't change much, even with the added land the Soviets are still going to keep Bulgaria on the same leash as all their other satellite states.

For 7 I imagine the answer to 8 would dictate that.

Easiest way to a greater Bulgaria is probably just having Austria-Hungary intervene in the second Balkan war, and then use this as the jumping off point for a CP victory. It's less contrived and getting it all in one war will presumably leave Bulgaria's population less worse for wear than fighting 3 (one of which it loses).

 

[Hvalrossen]

Gaining that much land from WWII despite being on the losing side is a tad contrived.

It gains Southern Dobruja from Romania due to Soviet favour similar to OTL and loses some strips of land to Serbia so that Serbia looks like it does now. Fyrom was part of ATL Bulgaria pre ww2. Then later in the Greek civilwar a different war from ww2, Bulgaria intervenes and annexes Greek Macedonia. So Bulgaria only gains Southern Dobruja during ww2.

As to number 4, would Bulgaria engage in population exchanges? It's taken on a lot of non-Bulgarian land.

Bulgaria could possibly engage in population exchanges.

Easiest way to a greater Bulgaria is probably just having Austria-Hungary intervene in the second Balkan war, and then use this as the jumping off point for a CP victory. It's less contrived and getting it all in one war will presumably leave Bulgaria's population less worse for wear than fighting 3 (one of which it loses).

kk

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Fyrom was part of ATL Bulgaria pre ww2.

You didn't outline that in your mini TL either.

 

[Hvalrossen]

You didn't outline that in your mini TL either.

Whoops i meant to say that Bulgaria kept Fyrom after ww2.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Whoops i meant to say that Bulgaria kept Fyrom after ww2.

And that takes me back to my earlier point, Bulgaria (a defeated enemy state) taking that much land from Yugoslavia (an ally of the victors) doesn't follow.

 

[Hvalrossen]

And that takes me back to my earlier point, Bulgaria (a defeated enemy state) taking that much land from Yugoslavia (an ally of the victors) doesn't follow.

I know this was not in the original, but what if Bulgaria joined Yugoslavia? Or maybe an earlier POD? Maybe the treaty of San Stefano could be a good place to start the POD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_San_Stefano

 

[Hvalrossen]

And that takes me back to my earlier point, Bulgaria (a defeated enemy state) taking that much land from Yugoslavia (an ally of the victors) doesn't follow.

What if Bulgaria became part of Yugoslavia? Since this ATL Bulgaria would be much bigger than in OTL, i think that Serbo-Kroats may want to combine their states. The reason Serbo-Croatia might appear is to give this ATL Yugoslavia more of a power balance. Therefore Yugoslavia will have three member states in this ATL, those being Slovenia, Serbo-Croatia and Bulgaria.

 

[ghappy1000]

How about Bulgaria gaining that much territory in a Central Powers victory in WW1 and gaining the rest of Thrace from Greece and the Ottomans or Turks in this scenario's WW2? Presumably, Serbia and Romania won't receive territory from Austria-Hungary in this scenario while Bulgaria could satisfy itself with Serbian territory and Dobruja's transfer or cessation after WW1 in this scenario.

 

[Hvalrossen]

How about Bulgaria gaining that much territory in a Central Powers victory in WW1 and gaining the rest of Thrace from Greece and the Ottomans or Turks in this scenario's WW2? Presumably, Serbia and Romania won't receive territory from Austria-Hungary in this scenario while Bulgaria could satisfy itself with Serbian territory and Dobruja's transfer or cessation after WW1 in this scenario.

But would ww2 happen if the central powers won? I wonder if communist Bulgaria could have these borders.

 

[Hvalrossen]

How about Bulgaria gaining that much territory in a Central Powers victory in WW1 and gaining the rest of Thrace from Greece and the Ottomans or Turks in this scenario's WW2? Presumably, Serbia and Romania won't receive territory from Austria-Hungary in this scenario while Bulgaria could satisfy itself with Serbian territory and Dobruja's transfer or cessation after WW1 in this scenario.

I wanted to try to keep the world as OTL as possible only changing Bulgaria's borders. This would change history alot from OTL. Besides would there be a second world war if the central powers won the first?