Junker Ju 390 Shot Down Over New York City

What if in August 1943, the German Junker Ju bomber which was taking reconnaissance photography of New York City was intercepted and brought down by American fighters? How does the public react to news of a German bomber over the Eastern seaboard?
 
What's the POD to get the 390 that much actual range, not paper range?

From the wiki
[Authors Karl Kössler and Günter Ott, in their book Die großen Dessauer: Junkers Ju 89, 90, 290, 390. Die Geschichte einer Flugzeugfamilie] also assert that the Ju 390 V1 prototype was unlikely to have been capable of taking off with the fuel load necessary for a flight of such duration due to strength concerns over its modified structure; it would have required a takeoff weight of 65 tonnes (72 tons), while the maximum takeoff weight during its trials had been 34 tonnes (38 tons). Another explanation for this is that prototypes are never flown at maximum gross weight for their maiden flight until testing can determine the aircraft's handling characteristics. According to Kössler and Ott, the Ju 390 V2 could not have made the US flight either, since they indicate that it was not completed before September/October 1944
 
For most of Europe even paper range isn't sufficient for a round trip. About the only place you could guarantee a return flight from (assuming no enemy interference) is Iceland, ehich raises some questions about just how the war developed.
 
What's the POD to get the 390 that much actual range, not paper range?

From the wiki
[Authors Karl Kössler and Günter Ott, in their book Die großen Dessauer: Junkers Ju 89, 90, 290, 390. Die Geschichte einer Flugzeugfamilie] also assert that the Ju 390 V1 prototype was unlikely to have been capable of taking off with the fuel load necessary for a flight of such duration due to strength concerns over its modified structure; it would have required a takeoff weight of 65 tonnes (72 tons), while the maximum takeoff weight during its trials had been 34 tonnes (38 tons). Another explanation for this is that prototypes are never flown at maximum gross weight for their maiden flight until testing can determine the aircraft's handling characteristics. According to Kössler and Ott, the Ju 390 V2 could not have made the US flight either, since they indicate that it was not completed before September/October 1944

There is a solution: Arial Refuelling, Take Off with minimal internal fuel, Top off at the French coast and go on to New York. But if you have this technique you really should use it for tracking convoys for the Wolf Packs.
 
If Germany did manage to fly a plane to NYC it would effect life on the East Coast, I could see a lot more civil defense measures such as black-outs and air raid drills, it would have a psychological impact if people think they are vulnerable to German bombers, but that could make people even more supportive of the war effort. It might also divert some resources from the war to ensure the US had adequate air defense, but probably not enough to have a noticeable impact.
 
What if in August 1943, the German Junker Ju bomber which was taking reconnaissance photography of New York City was intercepted and brought down by American fighters? How does the public react to news of a German bomber over the Eastern seaboard?

Wait, what?
 

Deleted member 1487

What if in August 1943, the German Junker Ju bomber which was taking reconnaissance photography of New York City was intercepted and brought down by American fighters? How does the public react to news of a German bomber over the Eastern seaboard?
Were there even US air defenses in place at the time?
 

nbcman

Donor
What if in August 1943, the German Junker Ju bomber which was taking reconnaissance photography of New York City was intercepted and brought down by American fighters? How does the public react to news of a German bomber over the Eastern seaboard?

It has never been proven that any flight occurred. The person that made the claim in 1955 in RAF Flying Review magazine later rescinded his claim. Besides, the maiden flight of the Ju-390 prototype was not until October 1943 so an August 1943 flight is impossible.

Were there even US air defenses in place at the time?

There was still a fighter wing in the New York area through early 1944. The fighter groups were equipped with P-47s.
 

Deleted member 1487

It has never been proven that any flight occurred. The person that made the claim in 1955 in RAF Flying Review magazine later rescinded his claim. Besides, the maiden flight of the Ju-390 prototype was not until October 1943 so an August 1943 flight is impossible.



There was still a fighter wing in the New York area through early 1944. The fighter groups were equipped with P-47s.
Well if it were to happen and the USAAF did make the interception (they'd also have to have radar warning), then the US probably spend insane resources defending the entire East Coast to the detriment of overseas operations to placate the public.
 
Well if it were to happen and the USAAF did make the interception (they'd also have to have radar warning), then the US probably spend insane resources defending the entire East Coast to the detriment of overseas operations to placate the public.


If it was successfully intercepted, there would be a sense that the defenses were already adequate. you arent going to get the level of panic there was along the west coast in Dec 1941. Not by 1943.
 

nbcman

Donor
Well if it were to happen and the USAAF did make the interception (they'd also have to have radar warning), then the US probably spend insane resources defending the entire East Coast to the detriment of overseas operations to placate the public.
They had radar facilities in the New York area. In fact, it appears that they were staffed by WAACs at the time of the proposed attack; refer to page 7 of this .pdf for the Radar Units by Command.

I agree that if there was an actual flight and interception the US would hold back fighters for home defense at least until France was occupied to 'eliminate' the threat.
 

Deleted member 1487

If it was successfully intercepted, there would be a sense that the defenses were already adequate. you arent going to get the level of panic there was along the west coast in Dec 1941. Not by 1943.
Why would you assume that there wouldn't be a panic? The East Coast thought they were safe due to distance and the realization that the Nazis could put bombers in range of such a heavily populated metropolis, especially when the US hadn't experienced bombing before, would likely freak people out. Remember even in London in 1944 there was serious outrage and mass evacuations due to the V-1 attacks because the British people thought they were long beyond facing any such attacks, especially that late in the war.
 
no panic because by 1943, most people will realize Hitler has no chance to invade or make any sort of serious attack on the US. Concern? sure. But unlike 1941, where in the wake of Pearl Harbor, much of the citizenry of California were expecting the Japanese to invade. No one will be expecting Hitler to invade when US troops are in Sicily and the Soviets just broke Hitler's back at Kursk
 
So far as I know, Germany made no attempt to try this (at the time rather tricky) manoeuvre.

There was a programe on Ch5 in the UK a few years ago about German plans to bomb New York.

They had the usual Amerika Bomber suggestions, plus flying boats refueled from U-boats 1,000km offshore, a carrier aircraft for piloted bombs flown by suicide pilots etc but one early Messerschmitt proposal was for IFR, I couldn't really tell much from the diagram other than it was a trailing hose design.



GermanIFR2_zps66ee85b9.jpg


GermanIFR3_zpsa1e918e9.jpg


GermanIFR1_zpsb18e5f70.jpg
 
Top