Juniper Mackenzie

[Diamond]

-- because that's official Wiccaspeak. It's part of the terminology of the Craft.

"So mote it be" is what you say at the end of a prayer/spell; "Blessed Be" is a related term.

This is what actual Wiccans actually say in those circumstances.

A lot of them use "Blessed Be" instead of "Goodbye(*)", or sometimes "Merry met," which is short for "Merry meet, and merry part, and merry meet again."

It's precisely equivalent to a Christan saying "Amen" or "God willing" or "God bless" or a Muslim saying "Inshallah".

You know, being human, I make mistakes. But I don't make _that kind_ of mistake. If I've got someone using specialist vocabulary, they're using it the way people actually do (or would).

(*) which replaced the original "God be with you" or "Go with God".

Fair enough.

I don't mean to knock your writing - you, after all, are a published and respected author, while I am but an amateur.

The character just... irritates me. Maybe I'll write a fanfic where the Bearkillers team up with the Protector and sell the Mackenzies into slavery.

 

[CalBear]

Fair enough.

I don't mean to knock your writing - you, after all, are a published and respected author, while I am but an amateur.

The character just... irritates me. Maybe I'll write a fanfic where the Bearkillers team up with the Protector and sell the Mackenzies into slavery.

Wow! You REALLY dislike 'ol Juney don't you?

 

[SkyEmperor]

O, come on... I would be content if someone went door-to-door and reminded everyone in Dun Juniper they didnt get sucked into the extras shots in Braveheart.

 

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

O, come on... I would be content if someone went door-to-door and reminded everyone in Dun Juniper they didnt get sucked into the extras shots in Braveheart.

-- as a matter of facts, Juniper tells Dennis at one point that if he doesn't watch out, he'll have them all painting their faces blue. A gleam comes into his eye... .

 

[Jaeger]

As a pagan (although I look to the Norse gods) it was nice and refreshing to see a pagan main charature that is a "real" person that is well rounded. What she says in the book is how many pagans speak, granted not in the public world that you and me act in every day but in their private lives and with others this is how it is,
it's like a hard core christian saying "god bless" and the like. But Mr. Steriling coverded that in one of the posts. And I would not have had a problem if the charaters was a Christian that said all of the Chistian things , that is how the charater is, but it is still nice to have a well round pagan main charater in the book

 

[Diamond]

As a pagan (although I look to the Norse gods) it was nice and refreshing to see a pagan main charature that is a "real" person that is well rounded. What she says in the book is how many pagans speak, granted not in the public world that you and me act in every day but in their private lives and with others this is how it is,
it's like a hard core christian saying "god bless" and the like. But Mr. Steriling coverded that in one of the posts. And I would not have had a problem if the charaters was a Christian that said all of the Chistian things , that is how the charater is, but it is still nice to have a well round pagan main charater in the book

I'll admit, I know next to squat about pagan/wiccan rituals etc. I just found the language distracting. Much as I would if it had been a fundamentalist Christian using 'god bless' and other expressions.

The wiccan thing I think bugs me because much of it (the terminology/language) seems self-consciously invented to set them apart and 'unique-ify' them, just for the sake of doing it - "Ooh, look how special we are with our made-up and needlessly archaic jibber-jabber!". I never could stand that about Catholics either - yeah, Latin was the language of choice when the church was founded, but get with the times. Nice to see English/other native tongues being used in church services now thanks to Vatican II.

I guess what I mean is that I always thought one of the main ideas of religion was to bring people closer together, not only to each other, but to their god.

 

[Jaeger]

I'll admit, I know next to squat about pagan/wiccan rituals etc. I just found the language distracting. Much as I would if it had been a fundamentalist Christian using 'god bless' and other expressions.

The wiccan thing I think bugs me because much of it (the terminology/language) seems self-consciously invented to set them apart and 'unique-ify' them, just for the sake of doing it - "Ooh, look how special we are with our made-up and needlessly archaic jibber-jabber!". I never could stand that about Catholics either - yeah, Latin was the language of choice when the church was founded, but get with the times. Nice to see English/other native tongues being used in church services now thanks to Vatican II.

I guess what I mean is that I always thought one of the main ideas of religion was to bring people closer together, not only to each other, but to their god.

ok how can I say this with out starting a whole big flame war about religon...
all religions have "made-up and needlessly archaic jibber-jabber" just look at any church service it's all their to give a feeling of togeatherness and to help seperat yourself from those who belive diffently. why shouldn't us pagans have some sort of "code" to use between ourselves? or is that somthing for only the
other "established" religions ? (I'm not trying to start a flame war with this)
This use of archaic jibber-jabber that seems self-consciously invented is just that, every group has and will use it to set themselves apart from the rest of the world to get that feeling of unquinness, it's just our time

 

[Diamond]

ok how can I say this with out starting a whole big flame war about religon...
all religions have "made-up and needlessly archaic jibber-jabber" just look at any church service it's all their to give a feeling of togeatherness and to help seperat yourself from those who belive diffently. why shouldn't us pagans have some sort of "code" to use between ourselves? or is that somthing for only the
other "established" religions ? (I'm not trying to start a flame war with this)
This use of archaic jibber-jabber that seems self-consciously invented is just that, every group has and will use it to set themselves apart from the rest of the world to get that feeling of unquinness, it's just our time

Yeah, you're right. I came across a mite too harsh there; sorry. And nope, I don't want a flamefest either.

Hmm. Perhaps it's because pagan beliefs are 'new' in the sense that most of the world is just now being exposed to them without being told (most of the time) that their practitioners are demons, that folks now have to unconsciously absorb a whole new and extra set of information. Not everyone is a Catholic, but the vast majority of people on the planet, I would venture to say, are at least somewhat familiar with its rituals. Maybe pagan rituals just need time to absorb into the collective unconsiousness...

 

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

The wiccan thing I think bugs me because much of it (the terminology/language) seems self-consciously invented to set them apart and 'unique-ify' them, just for the sake of doing it - "Ooh, look how special we are with our made-up and needlessly archaic jibber-jabber!".

-- all groups do this. Flags, national costumes, sub-cultural jargons, etc. It's universal.

Of course, everyone else's group-identity tokens seem contrived and artificial. One's own seem as natural as water to a fish.

 

[Diamond]

-- all groups do this. Flags, national costumes, sub-cultural jargons, etc. It's universal.

Of course, everyone else's group-identity tokens seem contrived and artificial. One's own seem as natural as water to a fish.

Please see my last post.

 

[Tielhard]

So smite that bee?

 

[Jaeger]

Yeah, you're right. I came across a mite too harsh there; sorry. And nope, I don't want a flamefest either.
Cool, and I did not want to step on what you belive in also. If you have any questions about pagans I try to anser them, now remember all I can speak for is my self their is Pagan Pope out thier , if their was things would be different.

 

[wkwillis]

A good example of what Stirling is talking about is what happened in Yugoslavia around 1990 to 2000. People were trying to make sure that they sounded like a "Serb" or a "Bosnian" or a "Croat", and making the language different on purpose.
Of course, all the Serbs and Bosnians and Croats had to figure out what made Serbian and Bosnian and Croatian different from each other so they could get it right. This meant learning to use the equivalent of "So Mote It Be!" instead of "God Bless Us Every One", because only the evil others would use that phrase.
In America it's simple. If it's "soda" or "pop", you are a northerner. If it's "co'cola", you are a southerner. Not difficult at all.

 

[Ghost 88]

A good example of what Stirling is talking about is what happened in Yugoslavia around 1990 to 2000. People were trying to make sure that they sounded like a "Serb" or a "Bosnian" or a "Croat", and making the language different on purpose.
Of course, all the Serbs and Bosnians and Croats had to figure out what made Serbian and Bosnian and Croatian different from each other so they could get it right. This meant learning to use the equivalent of "So Mote It Be!" instead of "God Bless Us Every One", because only the evil others would use that phrase.
In America it's simple. If it's "soda" or "pop", you are a northerner. If it's "co'cola", you are a southerner. Not difficult at all.

This is interesting I'm a southerner and I call it coke.Used to call it pop when I was young and even at time call it soda. Never called it co'cola but have been known to call it Coke a cola or when I ask for what I prefer I call it Pepsi.So maybe its not so simple as its also refered to as cola.

 

[wkwillis]

This is interesting I'm a southerner and I call it coke.Used to call it pop when I was young and even at time call it soda. Never called it co'cola but have been known to call it Coke a cola or when I ask for what I prefer I call it Pepsi.So maybe its not so simple as its also refered to as cola.

Word usage changes over time as well as distance. We could really do some linguistic fine tuning with google and some kind of location finding capability.

 

[The Lurker]

-- yes.



-- A MEETING AT CORVALLIS will have plenty, I assure you.

You know, it just came to my attention who you are..... so I'd just like to say, thanks for all the great books

Despite all my good intentions of wanting to wait for the finished product this time around, I've been reading the chapters you've put up on the website....

Is there any particular reason that you seem to follow a pattern with this trilogy and the nantucket one, a first book with a lot of character development and some action, a middle book with much development and less action, and then a third with the major war?

Also..... why do most of your major characters always seem to pair up and/or get all domestic about some things? Swindapa/Alston, Juniper/Loring, etc?

 

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

Also..... why do most of your major characters always seem to pair up and/or get all domestic about some things? Swindapa/Alston, Juniper/Loring, etc?

-- most people do, after all... .

Poul Anderson once pointed out that Conan is extremely unusual among people in general and barbarians in particular in that he shows little interest in settling down and starting a family until he's nearly middle-aged; he attributed it to the mighty Cimmerian's traumatic childhood.

 

[The Lurker]

-- most people do, after all... .

Poul Anderson once pointed out that Conan is extremely unusual among people in general and barbarians in particular in that he shows little interest in settling down and starting a family until he's nearly middle-aged; he attributed it to the mighty Cimmerian's traumatic childhood.

yeah, but with all respect, it does come across as a bit odd for a black lesbian Coast Guard commander and an umpteenth-century pre-Indo European girl to meet, fall madly in love, start a family, AND form the general staff and Delta Force-equivalent of the Republic of Nantucket It just seems to usually involve 'coworkers,' in your books....overlapping work and families?

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Personally I get the impression that Diamond is just really hot for Juniper and resents her getting engaged to Sir Nigel...

 

[Diamond]

Personally I get the impression that Diamond is just really hot for Juniper and resents her getting engaged to Sir Nigel...

Uh, no.

Now, if Mr. Stirling could somehow see his way clear to writing an ISOT story featuring Anna Kournikova, well...