June 6 1944, Operation Overlord goes Holland (could it have worked?)

Hmm
What I understand to have happened to the original timeline Operation Market Garden, when the Western Allies were already ashore and the Germans had already taken a beating in France
- yet the Western Allies still encountered serious difficulty in forcing their way forward - leaves me sceptical that it would be a good idea for the Western Allies for them to attempt a June 1994 landing in Holland instead of in Normandy.

In addition to which, part of what assisted the Normandy breakout, as I understand things, was that Hitler was reluctant to allow troops to move from other areas to go to somewhere as remote from Berlin as Normandy, if there was a possible 'second' invasion closer to Germany to yet land, somewhere. If the Allies are landing in Holland, instead of Normandy, in June 1944, I'm not sure that Hitler's going to believe that a second landing could get plausibly come ashore anywhere closer, and the movement of troops to contain/destroy the Allied landings is going to be easy for him to authorise straight away.

You also knew that the entire operation was compromised because the allies had to take !!6!! bridges intact in 48/72 Hours to succesfully connect with Nijmegen?

Which in short means - 1 bridge gone and you've just chokepointed everything on wheels, which was also what was happened.

Also, Market Garden was VERY poorly planned aswell, ambitious yes, and if it was succesfull, the entire Ruhr area would be taken within a few weeks.

Although you DO have a point concerning shorter reinforcement paths, but if I would plan an invasion through Holland i'd make sure the the first 2 most west bridges connecting south (Moerdijk and Rotterdam, preferably also Gorinchem and Den Bosch) getting destroyed, and it wold take ANY southern German reinforcements at least 3 days longer to get there.
 
A point that was made in the infamous Frisian Islands thread: There is a reason Normandy was chosen ITTL and not some other place.
 
A point that was made in the infamous Frisian Islands thread: There is a reason Normandy was chosen ITTL and not some other place.

There's also a reason that there's people voting for Donald Trump, doesn't mean other options can't be discussed.

I'm quite sorry, the reply was quite funny in the start, but it wears off in time.
 
But, BUT...

The FRISIANS!!!

All teasing aside, it has been shown that trying to land in the Netherlands is not viable as a first landing. Maybe a follow up after Normandy and Dragoon.
 
I'd disagree with that last. At least on the game board I've won several times with that opening. Thing is I dont play the Netherlands lodgement the same way as the Normandy or any French coast landing is played. Its a threat requiring the defenders attention and resources, allowing other smaller invasions to grow into groups that can swan about the map. The Netherlands lodgement can be confined due to the terrain, and proximity to Germany. But, the defender must keep a tight and strong lock on it. If the 'Army Grp Netherlands' does get loose the teeth are in the throat.
 

Dageraad

Donor
Do remember that there's not a Single point of failure, a huge lot of dykes have to be blown to get your result above.

A disaster scenario would be like Feb. 1, 1953, when the dikes flooded in a perfect storm, those dykes weren't maintained from the '20's anymore due to financial shortages



Dark parts are the parts flooded in the storm.
Red arrows the breakthroughs, notice that there are a terrifying lot of them.
I still dont think a relatively minor operation will flood the Hollands (Noord & Zuid Holland) that easily. it'll require a hell of an operation to accomplish that.

I remeber that I had this discussion before somewhere, but please google for "Schielands Hoge Zeedijk".
That was ONE dyke protecting 3 million citizens and it almost collapsed in 1953.
The Germans do not have to blow that many dikes simply blow the key ones and reverse the flow in all pumping stations.

Also the part that was flooded in 1953 was mostly above sea level. It flooded because of the storm surge.
The central part of South Holland goes dowh as deep as 6 meters below sea level. That's the part north of Rotterdam
 
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