Jumo 205 Engines for Land, Maritime, and Energy Applications?

Yup, and having it running while flat on its side shouldn't be a problem, since it was designed to be mounted buried within a wing... Use the space above to fit radiator and fans.
 
I have a few half written timelines where Napier is taken over by Rolls Royce in about 1930.

The main purpose of the above is to have the Napier engineers that produced its range of sleeve valve engines (Rapier, Dagger and Sabre) IOTL instead help Rolls Royce get the Griffon and more powerful versions of the Merlin in service earlier.

However, there would be enough engineers left over to continue work on the Cutlass and Culverin. As a result they develop a range of marine diesels to replace the petrol engines on the Royal Navy's fast attack craft and the RAF rescue launches by the end of the war if not sooner.

A knock on effect of that is that the Deltic comes into service about 5 years earlier.

On the naval side this might mean that a diesel powered fast anti-submarine frigate is feasible in the 1950s. Therefore ITTL we might see 18 Type 11's built instead of the Whitby and Type 14 classes. In that case the Type 11 hull and machinery would be used for the AA frigate and because the hull was larger there might be no need for a separate AD frigate. 8 combined AA and AD ships would be more flexible than 4 AA and 4 AD ships. If that happens its likely that a development of the Type 11 would be built to fill the colonial sloop requirement instead of the Type 81 because its diesel engines would give it the required range. If the diesel powered frigate is fast enough to operate with carrier task forces then we're going to see more Type 11 derivatives built instead of the Rothesay and Leander classes.

I haven't thought out the effect on railway applications much. But...

If the Delitc engine was 5 years ahead of the real world then there is the potential for the DP1 prototype to appear in 1950 instead of 1955 and for the production Class 55 to enter service in 1956 instead of 1961. The Class 55 would probably be built in larger numbers as more might be built for the West Coast Main Line (WCML) pending its electrification.

The Class 23 "Baby Delitcs" could also be built 5 years earlier. If the result was that their bugs were cured 5 years earlier it would be logical to mass produce them instead of the Type 2 locomotives that were built under the Modernisation Programme. However, I don't know enough about the subject to say if that would be an improvement over what actually happened.


Could Junkers Jumo have at least developed the 205 into an MTB engine to supplement the Daimler Benz engines the Germans used on their S-Boats? A shortage of engines seems to have prevented the Germans from keeping all the S-boas they did have operational, let alone build more.
 
The Nuffield Liberty and the R-R Meteor were aircraft engines, and the Sherman's radial to boot. The Sherman's Ford V-8 was originally an aircraft V-12 engine. There's an engine to wonder about. Anyway, a good engine is a good engine, and a poor or crap engine is not. Power characteristics can be adjusted with tuning, or as we used to call it, moddyfeecations.

Liberty had problem as a tank engine. In the M4, the R973 fouled spark plugs rapidly

Meteor, a detuned Merlin worked fine, as did the Ford, other than it shouldn't have had 4 cylinders removed.

Opposed Piston engines just didn't work well in tanks, excepting the Swedish S Tank, but that was paired with a turbine
 
One out in left field notion: if Napier developed the Deltic (ultimately) from the 205, what are the chances for a Jumo *Deltic?

Then again, let's be honest: as chaotic as German aeroengine production was, aren't we asking a lot?:p
 
One out in left field notion: if Napier developed the Deltic (ultimately) from the 205, what are the chances for a Jumo *Deltic?

Then again, let's be honest: as chaotic as German aeroengine production was, aren't we asking a lot?:p

As wiking was pointing out, Junkers was working on some rhomboids, with 4 engines in a diamond, called Jumo 223 and 224. As you point out, it was asking a lot, what with all the noise and bombs and jets and all. They were all still intended as aero engines. 2600 kg aero engines.
 
As wiking was pointing out, Junkers was working on some rhomboids, with 4 engines in a diamond, called Jumo 223 and 224. As you point out, it was asking a lot, what with all the noise and bombs and jets and all. They were all still intended as aero engines. 2600 kg aero engines.
If I was a German engineer, I'd propose five engines in a back-to-back Deltic configuration. It's fantastically overcomplicated, bound to be overweight and unreliable, and therefore just the sort of thing the Nazis loved.
 
RLBH said:
If I was a German engineer, I'd propose five engines in a back-to-back Deltic configuration. It's fantastically overcomplicated, bound to be overweight and unreliable, and therefore just the sort of thing the Nazis loved.
:D:D:D Perfect for the 4-engined He-477 dive bomber with the twin 90mm guns.:p
 

Delta Force

Banned
Yup, and having it running while flat on its side shouldn't be a problem, since it was designed to be mounted buried within a wing... Use the space above to fit radiator and fans.

That seems to have been more of an option that a flat engine allows, as opposed to something that the engines were actually designed for. The oil system on the Jumo wasn't designed for anything other than conventional vertical operation. I'm not sure why that was the case when Germany built several inverted engines that required fuel injection to function. As a diesel engine it's not like it was going to be put on any fighter aircraft anyways.

That was what the Jumo 223 was supposed to be about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_223

What about using it as a diesel-electric submarine engine? Apparently only the USN and a handful of Royal Navy and IJN (for low speed operations) submarines had true diesel-electric power, with others using direct drive on the surface. Omitting the direct drive system would allow for the engines to be used without the need for coupling them together in complicated arrangements.

As wiking was pointing out, Junkers was working on some rhomboids, with 4 engines in a diamond, called Jumo 223 and 224. As you point out, it was asking a lot, what with all the noise and bombs and jets and all. They were all still intended as aero engines. 2600 kg aero engines.

Something like the Lycoming XR-7755 radial would be a far more practical aviation engine, and that's a lot seeing as it turned out to be too large for use on the B-36 without resorting to contra-rotating propellers.

A powerful two-stroke engine akin to the Rolls-Royce Crecy might be more practical too. The main issue with the Crecy seems to have been its tendency to destroy itself because it was running at least twice as much power as a conventional engine, and aero engines were already pushing boundaries.
 
:D:D:D Perfect for the 4-engined He-477 dive bomber with the twin 90mm guns.:p
The question is, do you prefer the automatic 88mm (DuKa 88) or the single-shot 356mm gun (Gerät 104) - both of which were actually designed and tested. The 356mm gun was intended to attack battleships. :eek:
 

Delta Force

Banned
The question is, do you prefer the automatic 88mm (DuKa 88) or the single-shot 356mm gun (Gerät 104) - both of which were actually designed and tested. The 356mm gun was intended to attack battleships. :eek:

That's straying away from engines, but are you saying that a 14 inch cannon was actually built for aircraft use? Why do that instead of just dropping modified naval shells from aircraft as bombs?
 
That's straying away from engines, but are you saying that a 14 inch cannon was actually built for aircraft use? Why do that instead of just dropping modified naval shells from aircraft as bombs?
Yes, it really was built, and it seems to hold the title of the largest recoilless rifle. Presumably the hope was that a gun would be easier to aim accurately or stand off from AA fire, but I don't really know. With a muzzle velocity of just 320 m/s, it hardly seems worth it to me.
 
RLBH said:
The question is, do you prefer the automatic 88mm (DuKa 88) or the single-shot 356mm gun (Gerät 104) - both of which were actually designed and tested. The 356mm gun was intended to attack battleships. :eek:
:eek::eek:

I should have known I couldn't imagine anything more insane than what the Nazis did.:p
 
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