July 20 Plot and Valkyrie.

What if the July 20 Plot has gone successfully, and Hitler is assassinated? What would have happened? How would Operation Valkyrie be carried out?
 
What if the July 20 Plot has gone successfully, and Hitler is assassinated? What would have happened? How would Operation Valkyrie be carried out?

we have discussed this numerous times in depth

standard bw response

the plotters where too disorganized to seriously take control of the government even if they killed hitler; and would be ripe targets for a counter coup run by guderian whom would delight in shooting beck and friends
 
What if the July 20 Plot has gone successfully, and Hitler is assassinated? What would have happened? How would Operation Valkyrie be carried out?


You;ve been watching too many Tom Cruise movies, even in the unlikely scenario they take command of the government, neither Stalin nor FDR was willing to sign a seperate peace deal, which is all they could hope for at that time.
 
we have discussed this numerous times in depth

standard bw response

the plotters where too disorganized to seriously take control of the government even if they killed hitler; and would be ripe targets for a counter coup run by guderian whom would delight in shooting beck and friends

It pretty much is.

However DrTron's been here for over a year, at least several of these threads have popped up in that time including one rather enjoyable TL.

You;ve been watching too many Tom Cruise movies, even in the unlikely scenario they take command of the government, neither Stalin nor FDR was willing to sign a seperate peace deal, which is all they could hope for at that time.

Alright. But what is the effect of a successful Hitler assassination?
 
Alright. But what is the effect of a successful Hitler assassination?

the remainder of the war gets run by Guderian, nobody wants to make peace; holocaust is reduced in scale, iron curtain doesn't get to go so far west; otherwise we merge with something very close to otl
 
It depends on the state of the Nazi troops and the response by Goebbels and Goerring and Himmler. The conspirators certainly did not have popular support among either the civilians or troops. But some soldiers may surely have taken the opportunity defect but I think Nazism may have been so ingrained in them at that point that there would not be much effect.

With Hitler out of the way I see the generals making peace quicker maybe after the Bulge or the invasion of Poland. It may well lead to a quicker end ot the war and many millions of lifes safed. Read Ian Kershaw's The End, over half of Nazi casualties came in the last year of the war.
 
we have discussed this numerous times in depth

standard bw response

the plotters where too disorganized to seriously take control of the government even if they killed hitler; and would be ripe targets for a counter coup run by guderian whom would delight in shooting beck and friends

by guderian? i never heard about that.... Why guderian?

I always thought the SS would take over, or the Gestapo. Thus Himmler or Göring becomes fuhrer. Goebbels won't have himself arrested either. Nor Bormann. Maybe arrested for a moment, then released again after a few calls.
 
by guderian? i never heard about that.... Why guderian?

I always thought the SS would take over, or the Gestapo. Thus Himmler or Göring becomes fuhrer. Goebbels won't have himself arrested either. Nor Bormann. Maybe arrested for a moment, then released again after a few calls.

Guderian is a mortal enemy of beck; near berlin, has command of the panzer troopers at potsdam, is a political hack of the highest order, mortal enemy of treskow
 
the remainder of the war gets run by Guderian, nobody wants to make peace; holocaust is reduced in scale, iron curtain doesn't get to go so far west; otherwise we merge with something very close to otl

I doubt Guderian could be signifiacntly more successful in holding the Soviets back, not at this stage in the game.
 
the remainder of the war gets run by Guderian, nobody wants to make peace; holocaust is reduced in scale, iron curtain doesn't get to go so far west; otherwise we merge with something very close to otl
But what would happen to the SS (which, for the record, entails the entire police as well as a big part of the government of occupied territories)? Surely, they'd scramble for power as well as the NSDAP, and I don't see how Guderian alone could run the Third Reich, with all it's assets.
 
But what would happen to the SS (which, for the record, entails the entire police as well as a big part of the government of occupied territories)? Surely, they'd scramble for power as well as the NSDAP, and I don't see how Guderian alone could run the Third Reich, with all it's assets.

he would probably ice himmler (whom he was on horrible terms with at that particular moment), and they would continue their activities (minus the death camps which Guderian would probably shut down for technocratic reasons) under Sepp Dietrich who has the necessary clout to be SS leader and is a friend of guderians for more than a decade
 
I always thought there would be a power struggle. I also see more resources and troops sent to the Soviet front and maybe a withdrawal from Italy.
 
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