Julio-Claudian Dynasty Opinions?

Approval Voting Julio-Claudian Dynasty

  • Augustus

    Votes: 35 85.4%
  • Tiberius

    Votes: 18 43.9%
  • Caligula

    Votes: 2 4.9%
  • Claudius

    Votes: 27 65.9%
  • Nero

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • Total voters
    41
Julio-Claudian Dynasty Opinions?

Thread for stating your opinions of the Julio-Claudian Dynasty. I'm curious what you think of the Julio-Claudian Emperors? What were each emperor's greatest successes and failures? From what I've seen Augustus is always considered great, Caligula-Nero mostly negative controversial stuff, Tiberius-Claudius mixed reactions.

I'm most interested in the last two and as to whether Tiberius and Claudius should be considered good emperors? Tiberius was a solid commander and seems great from a financial point of view. Claudius invaded Britian and led the empire during a difficult phase. Tiberius seems to be most critcised for being out of touch and commiting strange abuses on Capri. Claduius gets hit for breaking with Augustus command not to expand the empire and for being a weak leader.

Julio-Claudian
Augustus
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
 
Personally I think the stuff against Tiberius is probably untrue. Accusations of sexual perversion were common in Roman invective, as was the belief that excessive privacy was somewhat sinister (it shows you have something to hide). Nobody seems to have called Tiberius a pervert before he went to Capri, and whilst it's not impossible that he suddenly gave vent to all these long-suppressed desires like Tacitus suggests, I personally think it more likely that the stories about him were simply the result of rumour-mongering fuelled with resentment at his going into retirement and not leading the Empire like he was supposed to.
 
Personally I think the stuff against Tiberius is probably untrue. Accusations of sexual perversion were common in Roman invective, as was the belief that excessive privacy was somewhat sinister (it shows you have something to hide). Nobody seems to have called Tiberius a pervert before he went to Capri, and whilst it's not impossible that he suddenly gave vent to all these long-suppressed desires like Tacitus suggests, I personally think it more likely that the stories about him were simply the result of rumour-mongering fuelled with resentment at his going into retirement and not leading the Empire like he was supposed to.

I agree your probably right. I feel pretty bad for Tiberius, he was forced to divorce his wife, lost his brother and his son died. The man was probably just really depressed.
 
Good point.;) I take it you don't believe the conspiracy that he knocked off Germanicus?
There's no reason whatsoever for him to do it. It seems more like the rumours talked about above. Not many people liked Tiberius and everyone loved Germanicus. Tiberius killed other members of Germanicus later. The rumours spread themselves.

In reality Germanicus' campaign in Germany was almost a disaster and not even sanctioned by Tiberius and it made perfect sense that Tiberius wanted his son to get some experience and send Germanicus on a mission elsewhere, preferably where he can't flaunt his authority and nearly get an army destroyed. Murdering him had no utility however.
 
There's no reason whatsoever for him to do it. It seems more like the rumours talked about above. Not many people liked Tiberius and everyone loved Germanicus. Tiberius killed other members of Germanicus later. The rumours spread themselves.

In reality Germanicus' campaign in Germany was almost a disaster and not even sanctioned by Tiberius and it made perfect sense that Tiberius wanted his son to get some experience and send Germanicus on a mission elsewhere, preferably where he can't flaunt his authority and nearly get an army destroyed. Murdering him had no utility however.

I always got the impression that the German Campaign of Germanicus was just a way for the Romans to recover from their trauma. It may not have any real impact but it worked in curing the Roman panic of a German invasion of Gaul tho.

On Tiberius I think that the bad rep he got was thanks to Caligula. Until his madness Caligula was seen as Godsend so most likely he encouraged and created rumors to destroy Tiberius reputation in order for him to look better. Also wasn't the purge of Germanicus family a move by Sejanus? By the time of their dead Tiberius was in Capri and the information he got from Rome had to pass throw Sejanus so... maybe Tiberius was just fooled? Emperors being fooled by their subordinates is one of most common things in Roman History.
 
There's no reason whatsoever for him to do it. It seems more like the rumours talked about above. Not many people liked Tiberius and everyone loved Germanicus. Tiberius killed other members of Germanicus later. The rumours spread themselves.

In reality Germanicus' campaign in Germany was almost a disaster and not even sanctioned by Tiberius and it made perfect sense that Tiberius wanted his son to get some experience and send Germanicus on a mission elsewhere, preferably where he can't flaunt his authority and nearly get an army destroyed. Murdering him had no utility however.

I agree. And I will add that Germanicus, his wife and their 2 elder sons (excluding Caligula) were probably a gang of overstated arrogant pricks who were dramatically clueless.

They so much thought and showed that they considered themselves more legitimate than Tiberius that they let little choice to Tiberius else than getting rid of them.

I don't mean that Tiberius had Germanicus poisoned. Germanicus probably died from disease, which was very frequent in ancient times.

But Agrippina and her sons were so stupidly arrogant that they openly defied Augustus' political settlement which formally was a restoration of the republican rule of law. The dynastic nature of the regime, although obvious to anyone at the time, could not be officially placated.

And, most of all, there was absolutely no way dynastic considerations could be used to question the legitimacy of the emperor.

If they had been clever, they would have realized this and would have kept decent formal respect as their lign of conduct towards Tiberius.

They should have known that Augustus had Caesar's own son (although a bastard son) Caesarion murdered. And that was not because his mother was "the egyptian witch" since Cleopatra's children by Anthony were spared.

Agrippina should have known too what fate her grandfather Augustus reserved to his own grandson, her brother Agrippa Posthumus.
 
Last edited:
I agree your probably right. I feel pretty bad for Tiberius, he was forced to divorce his wife, lost his brother and his son died. The man was probably just really depressed.

Heh, I remember arguing in one of my undergraduate essays that Tiberius had depression... Aside from his well-documented tendency to melancholy, one of the symptoms of depression is a desire to just abandon everything and go into some sort of self-imposed retirement, which Tiberius did at least thrice (when he went to Rhodes, when he tried to refuse the throne after Augustus died, and finally when he went to Capri).

There's no reason whatsoever for him to do it. It seems more like the rumours talked about above. Not many people liked Tiberius and everyone loved Germanicus. Tiberius killed other members of Germanicus later. The rumours spread themselves.

In reality Germanicus' campaign in Germany was almost a disaster and not even sanctioned by Tiberius and it made perfect sense that Tiberius wanted his son to get some experience and send Germanicus on a mission elsewhere, preferably where he can't flaunt his authority and nearly get an army destroyed. Murdering him had no utility however.

I pretty much agree (although I think you're a bit harsh on Germanicus; his campaigns did at least succeed in restoring Roman prestige in the area after Teutoburg). If Tiberius was worried about Germanicus rebelling, he'd most likely have given him some civil office in Rome, where he wouldn't have any soldiers and Tiberius would be able to keep a close eye on him. Giving him a high-ranking command over an area with a large proportion of the Roman army would be rather dumb, and, whatever else he was, Tiberius certainly wasn't stupid.
 
Top