Julian Lives Brainstorm

I don't think it'd turn out like that - it's more likely that the term "Europe" becomes what "Asia" is OTL - just a landmass, without any connotations of being some kind of larger cultural unit - those connotations themselves are derived from the concept of Christendom. At least in the Roman point of view, Europe would probably be divided into Rome, "Germania" and "Scythia".
Why shouldn't they? In such a context, the Hunnic dynasty will have suppressed Roman culture, at least initially, considering it to be inferior to its own. If we have a Hunnic leader who acts like Chinggis Khan in that he believes that he has been sent to the Earth to squash what he considers to be domesticated, decadent degenerates and steal their women from them (perhaps sacrificing senators and taking their wives as concubines), we see the first layer of contrasting civilization developing as said Hunnic Chinggis Khan/Nurhaci rules over most of Europe, perhaps with Africa and Asia remaining out of his grasp forming rump states. The rump states and the Romans under the rule of this Hunnic dynasty would then contrast themselves to the Barbarians ruling over them, especially in the backlash that develops to overthrow them and reestablish the Eternal Empire.

I don't see why the idea of cultural units on the landmass should be an exclusively Christian development.
 
Why shouldn't they? In such a context, the Hunnic dynasty will have suppressed Roman culture, at least initially, considering it to be inferior to its own. If we have a Hunnic leader who acts like Chinggis Khan in that he believes that he has been sent to the Earth to squash what he considers to be domesticated, decadent degenerates and steal their women from them (perhaps sacrificing senators and taking their wives as concubines), we see the first layer of contrasting civilization developing as said Hunnic Chinggis Khan/Nurhaci rules over most of Europe, perhaps with Africa and Asia remaining out of his grasp forming rump states. The rump states and the Romans under the rule of this Hunnic dynasty would then contrast themselves to the Barbarians ruling over them, especially in the backlash that develops to overthrow them and reestablish the Eternal Empire.

I don't see why the idea of cultural units on the landmass should be an exclusively Christian development.

I thought that you said your plan was to keep Rome and Germania separated:

Furthermore, I'm far more interested in the idea of Scytho-Germanic civilization developing in contrast to the civilization of the Mediterranean for ideological reasons
 
I thought that you said your plan was to keep Rome and Germania separated:

It is. The period of Hunnic dominance would be perceived much like the Yuan or Qing dynasties are in China. Gaul would never be fully regained, with Septimania remaining in Roman hands and the region of Occitania being gradually Vasconicized as the area is regularly fought over and the Basques expand as a sort of mercenary minority like the Kurds.

What do you think should be done with Arabs in Late Antiquity, though?
 
It is. The period of Hunnic dominance would be perceived much like the Yuan or Qing dynasties are in China. Gaul would never be fully regained, with Septimania remaining in Roman hands and the region of Occitania being gradually Vasconicized as the area is regularly fought over and the Basques expand as a sort of mercenary minority like the Kurds.

What do you think should be done with Arabs in Late Antiquity, though?

I think that Islam probably wouldn't come up or assume a very different form if it did, in the first case, you'd still have Arab migrations, but more fragmented - something more like the Germanic migrations than the unified incursions of OTL. that also might mean they don't go as far as they did OTL.
 
I think that Islam probably wouldn't come up or assume a very different form if it did, in the first case, you'd still have Arab migrations, but more fragmented - something more like the Germanic migrations than the unified incursions of OTL. that also might mean they don't go as far as they did OTL.
I agree, but where to put them? The Horn of Africa? Iran? India? Sri Lanka? The Swahili Coast?
 
I don't think it's set in stone really that there would even be Christianity in general within 200 years of the POD, but I personally think it's more interesting to have it just fall slowly out of vogue and then be assimilated into the religious practice of Axial Age polytheism.
I agree with this as well, I think some Christians would still survive as an insular, sectarian religious group akin to the Yezidis today.
I think that increasing fundamentalism on the part of the Christian movement being consumed by internal division will beg state interference, either with the more intolerant sects being banned, forcing them into exile, or with edicts of toleration being passed that ban Christians from condemning other Christians, which will cause many of the previously popular brands of Christianity, specifically those with a High Christology, to purity spiral behind closed doors, leading to the rise of Low Christology, Christianity-lite varieties taking precedence. This is probably what informs the movement to assimilate Christianity into Mesopotamian religion as Buddhism is also going to be floating around, which will lend to the Docetist idea of the Christ as a Spirit that comes over man.
The idea that edicts of tolerance would be issued for Christians against Christians is actually a good idea that I hadn’t considered. And I think Mesopotamian polytheism surviving is very interesting. OTL Mesopotamian polytheism went into decay due to the Sassanians unlike the Parthians no longer seeing the worth of maintaining their temples (which had experienced a revival during the Hellenistic & Arsacid period), so what are your ideas for how it would develop?
So no, I do not see this happening at all. Furthermore, I'm far more interested in the idea of Scytho-Germanic civilization developing in contrast to the civilization of the Mediterranean for ideological reasons. I've been mulling over the idea of Hun chieftain actually conquering the Roman Empire wholesale and behaving like Chinggis Khan/Nurhaci, establishing a Hunnic dynasty, suppressing Greco-Roman culture for over a century and moving multiple different population groups around before a popular backlash that kicks them out after said empire breaks up. The new Roman dynasty would be like a heavily fundamentalist Roman Ming dynasty, and Europe would be divided into Europe and Barbarica to the north. I also think it would be cool to have all the holy relics of of Ancient Rome removed when the Huns raise the city to the ground and have them dragged to their capital, only for them to be fought over and redistributed gradually bay various different successors and successor states. Thus, in Barbarica and Europe alike, stories surrounding these relics would abound. Who has them hidden where, how some were destroyed or lost, others were repurposed. In Europe, stories would be about emperors, generals, and heroic adventurers who penetrated deep into Barbarica to recover them. I can imagine for example the Ancile being melted down into a series of hilts to sacred swords. Perhaps only some of them have been, and others yet still remain. There's a lot of possibilities here, but it makes for a fun narrative representing the clash of the two different civilizations, I think.
I’m also a polytheist, I was just operating under the assumption that history would go much as OTL for the first few centuries but reading more of your ideas I see that you have a very divergent set of ideas for how the world will develop. I am actually very interested in that idea of the Hunnic empire and the relics of Rome becoming akin to legendary sacred objects like the body parts of the Buddha or the Shakti Pithas.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I very much like this idea, actually. It could play into an interesting interplay between in Europe in general in terms of culture, religion, philosophy, and language. Religio Romana might get increasingly Egyptified, as Neoplatonism and specifically Iamblichan Neoplatonism was extremely so already, I would argue. Europe might then see Egypt, Greece, and Rome then as the Three Fingers, that is the Three Fingers of God held up in the benedictio latina hand gesture that was common in the imagery of Sabazios-Dionysus, which of course was very much part of Mithraism as remember Mithras is the one who KILLS Sabazios-Dionysus to restart the Cycle of Being, or in this case, the year. The bull being sacrificed in the tauroctony scenes in the Mithraea are representative of Sabazios, who may be equated with the Egyptian Apis Bull. In fact, it does seem that these myths were analogous, as the Bull was thought to be sacrificed at the end of every year in Egypt so to resurrect again as Osiris so that the Cycle could continue. Within the Mithraic imagery, likely of Thracian origin, the Bull is being sacrificed to rise again as Zagreus. Remember that the name Zagreus itself refers to a pit for capturing animals, and he is said to have been ripped apart by the Titans as a child. Here, we might interpret the imagery as possible justification for offering up a bull instead of a youth as a sacrifice, which may then become equated with the myths surrounding Antínous and his sacrifice to save Hadrian's life when he was ill. The Cult of Antínous was widely popular at the time and a competitor to Christianity, especially in the Greek East, and there were places in which he was already equated with Apis-Osiris. So then, we might see the development of special ritual sacrifices of youths who are selected for such a purpose develop in Europe and perhaps also Barbarica in times of dire need instead of the sacrifice as a Bull, which acts as a stand in during times of plenty. Anyways, the Three Fingers of God come into play here as Zagreb's, Dionysus, and Sabazios are scene as symbolizing the Cycle of Being and thus Being Itself, and they are identified with what are believed to be the Three Nations that represent the Three Stages of Formation of European Civilization, being Egypt, Greece, and Rome. In Barbarica, there would be a similar belief (Antínous was widely popular also in Gaul, where he was equated with Belenos), with the Three Nations being Celtic, Germanic, and Scythian. They would see themselves thus as mirror images of each other, and this could feed into various esoteric doctrines surrounding the Nature of Being, where the two civilizations being mirror images stand opposed to one another, with one side needing to break through the other to attain Unity with God, whilst later a doctrine develops of the acceptance of opposing categories in a sort of Yin and Yang fashion (this will probably start in Barbarica) and even later still, one of peace between the two that believes that the acceptance of the image of oneself in the mirror as being part and parcel of the Body of God is necessary for Enlightenment/Henosis, which may itself develop in Europe.
This is a great idea imo, as you say Iamblichus was drawing heavily from ideas of Egyptian temple worship as opposed to the more intellectual Middle Platonism that had been dominant centuries earlier. The Three Fingers idea relating to worship of Bacchic and Dionysian/Egyptianizing Gods (Dionysus himself identified with Osiris in antiquity) is very interesting and can all sort of fit into a collective mytheme regarding Dionysus and the Orphic Mysteries which were revered by the Neoplatonists That could connect to both northern and southern cultural spheres (due to Orpheus being a Thracian).

Oh, and since I guess this confirms Greco-Egyptian influence might be present in Gaul, it reminds me of something I read (basically pseudo-history devised by orientalists and proto historians from the early modern period) that Isis was the goddess of Paris, the name coming from Per-Isis (House of Isis) which was related to pseudo-etymology and the boat like shape of Isle de la Cite was connected with Isis Pelagia. So future worshippers establishing themselves in Gaul could create their own sort of mythology of the succession of civilization from the antiquity of Egypt into their own.

In addition I wanted to go back to the Maghreb (maybe in this TL it would be latinized as Maghrevia or just default to Libya or something like that). In North Africa there was a circumstance unlike other Barbarian kingdoms where the Vandals had to worry about the encroachment of martially able Amazigh clans, and by time of Justinian some Romano Africans (at least secular writers who weren’t overtly pro-Nicene, not counting Augustine but I’m just trying to collect as many instances as I can of this) seemed have developed their own identity separate from Roman/Latin. The writer Fabius Planciades Fulgentius identified himself as a Libyan instead of a Roman, Corippus a Romano-Amazigh poet referred to himself as a Punic, Saint Augustine identified himself as a Punic and defended the use of Punic names. It got me thinking about a revival of Punic culture (naturally one heavily mixed with Latin and Amazigh culture) under an independent North Africa realm, especially based around the Cult of Baal-Saturn who was the chief God of Roman Africa and parts of Numidia and Tanit-Caelestis who could be identified with his wife/daughter or with Isis.
 
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When do you think you'll start the TL, @Hassungṙengjang? Looking forward to it.

After Midsummer, sir! I think it will be a good way of turning over a new leaf as we move toward winter, although there will likely be a hiatus during the harvest (I work at a winery), and harvest is coming earlier this year if this weather keeps up, so... somewhere between the end of August and the end of October? Depends on how long the weather keeps. I might not have to take a full hiatus, but maybe I can keep a single update per week schedule. At the height of harvest we do six day weeks starting at 6AM, so... that'll have to be a maybe.

I agree with this as well, I think some Christians would still survive as an insular, sectarian religious group akin to the Yezidis today.

Aaaaah! I had not thought of this. Sure, that could happen. What if they become itinerants, like the Roma or the Sinti?

The idea that edicts of tolerance would be issued for Christians against Christians is actually a good idea that I hadn’t considered. And I think Mesopotamian polytheism surviving is very interesting. OTL Mesopotamian polytheism went into decay due to the Sassanians unlike the Parthians no longer seeing the worth of maintaining their temples (which had experienced a revival during the Hellenistic & Arsacid period), so what are your ideas for how it would develop?

It's the perfect way to put them in their place, isn't it? One might even imagine a special section of the government staffed by Pagans that would be tasked with making sure the churches behaved themselves, so Irennaeus's Against Heresies and anything else of the like would be banned. This might even happen toward the end of Julian's reign if he reigns for long enough, and I'm hoping to push his reign a good 50 years if at all possible. Assuming he is somehow victorious in installing a puppet ruler in Iran, then we might also see such policies of toleration being mimicked there. We might imagine then that the undercurrent that informed the point of view of Nestorius, that is, that Jesus Christ has distinct human and divine persons could evolve into the idea that Jesus was the man and The Christ is the Spirit that mounted him, which may help to reconcile Mandaeism with Christianity as Jesus might just be seen as one of many prophets who has been mounted by The Christ. This would then feed into Manichaean ideas about the Prophet Mani as being a reincarnation of figures like the Buddha, Jesus, and Krishna. Another result we might imagine here is that the prolonged period of religious tolerance under Julian's reign that is aimed at fragmenting Christianity could lead to missionary efforts from Iranian Central Asia on the part of Buddhists proselytizing in Roman Mesopotamia.

I honestly haven't given a lot of thought to how I would like to resurrect Mesopotamian religion, but I know that it will happen through Harran, and that it will likely come in the form of a religion that tries to syncretize the disparate Abrahamic, Dharmic, and Pagan religions of the area. If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them. I need to read up on the religion of Harran.

I’m also a polytheist, I was just operating under the assumption that history would go much as OTL for the first few centuries but reading more of your ideas I see that you have a very divergent set of ideas for how the world will develop. I am actually very interested in that idea of the Hunnic empire and the relics of Rome becoming akin to legendary sacred objects like the body parts of the Buddha or the Shakti Pithas.

Well, shave my ass and call me Harriet! How rude of me. I do apologize! I'm glad you like the idea, though.

Oh, and since I guess this confirms Greco-Egyptian influence might be present in Gaul, it reminds me of something I read (basically pseudo-history devised by orientalists and proto historians from the early modern period) that Isis was the goddess of Paris, the name coming from Per-Isis (House of Isis) which was related to pseudo-etymology and the boat like shape of Isle de la Cite was connected with Isis Pelagia. So future worshippers establishing themselves in Gaul could create their own sort of mythology of the succession of civilization from the antiquity of Egypt into their own.

They could, but I don't much like fabricated genealogies for people or groups of people like that. I would prefer rather that Isis develops more or less like Parvati, as a sort of archetypal Goddess from whom all other manifestations of the Divine Feminine emanate. This most ancient form would only be called Isis because Isis is the oldest name by which she is known because Egyptian Civilization is the most ancient out of the Three Fingers.

In addition I wanted to go back to the Maghreb (maybe in this TL it would be latinized as Maghrevia or just default to Libya or something like that). In North Africa there was a circumstance unlike other Barbarian kingdoms where the Vandals had to worry about the encroachment of martially able Amazigh clans, and by time of Justinian some Romano Africans (at least secular writers who weren’t overtly pro-Nicene, not counting Augustine but I’m just trying to collect as many instances as I can of this) seemed have developed their own identity separate from Roman/Latin. The writer Fabius Planciades Fulgentius identified himself as a Libyan instead of a Roman, Corippus a Romano-Amazigh poet referred to himself as a Punic, Saint Augustine identified himself as a Punic and defended the use of Punic names. It got me thinking about a revival of Punic culture (naturally one heavily mixed with Latin and Amazigh culture) under an independent North Africa realm, especially based around the Cult of Baal-Saturn who was the chief God of Roman Africa and parts of Numidia and Tanit-Caelestis who could be identified with his wife/daughter or with Isis.

Funny you should mention this, because I'm very into the idea of Romano-Berbers settling the Canaries and developing trade with West Africa. Furthermore, I was reading about a few different Early Church Fathers today to try and parcel out which ones come across to me as more malleable, and I think that Augustine is actually the perfect candidate for a Neoplatonist Theologian in the Romano-Berber-Punic tradition.

Depending on how weak Persia or Rome are, probably Mesopotamia, Syria, Egypt or Anatolia.

I'm thinking quite a number of them might go to the Horn of Africa, whilst others go to Mesopotamia. The Neoplatonist, syncretist religion might be heavily influenced by Arabian lunar religion, particularly the indigenous religion of Yemen, which may experience an exodus of its clergy across the desert to the north following the formal syncretization of Jesus and Rahmanan and Mary with Shams to gain Aksumite favor.
 
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I think it could be interesting to have the Balkans become majority Germanic instead of slavic with different migration patterns, also maybe seeing more far eastern religions like buddhism in europe could be interesting. I wonder of sth like a "Pan-Pagan" religion could eventually emerge in Europe
 
I think it could be interesting to have the Balkans become majority Germanic instead of slavic with different migration patterns, also maybe seeing more far eastern religions like buddhism in europe could be interesting. I wonder of sth like a "Pan-Pagan" religion could eventually emerge in Europe
Since I think I am going to be swapping China and Rome's fates, I don't think at least the area of Illyria will be anything but, well... Illyrian. It has occurred to me that a lot of local languages would actually survive for a lot longer in a scenario in which the Roman Empire continues for much longer. Without the collapse of urban life caused by the fall of the WRE, languages like Lusitania, Gallaecian, Celtiberian, Iberian, Gaulish, Lepontic, Noric, Illyrian, Proto-Albanian, and the like probably continue to be spoken in the countryside, so it depends really on how groups are moved around during the reign of the Huns and what this looks like. It also depends on how Julian handles the situation with the Goths. After his campaign in Persia, Ermanaric is on the rise in Eastern Europe and the Pontic Steppe. Does he ally Rome with this king, or does he consider him to be an existential threat? Considering the character of Julian, I am inclined toward him allying Rome to the Goths, but then he doesn't really have any princesses to marry to him, does he? The alliance wouldn't be sealed with a marriage then, and would be subject to change as soon as Julian's successor (whoever that is exactly) comes to the throne.

If the Goths are thought of as allies, then they will likely be welcomed as the Sarmatians were as clients of the Roman Empire following their defeat by the Huns. If Julian considers Ermanaric to be a competitor, then the situation could unfold similarly to the way it did IOTL, except without Julian dying the way Valens did at Adrianople. What that leaves us with is a situation in which the Goths are generally forcibly assimilated, dispersed without weapons like all of the other migrants into the borders of the empire for hundreds of years previously. I'm partial to the idea that the are allies initially and accepted willfully as clients to be settled on the Danube frontier until the Huns defeat the Romans entirely. I think the Goths might then be deported somewhere, but where I'm not sure. Some place where they can't make too much trouble. I'm thinking Britain personally, but it could also be interesting to have them migrate to the eastern frontier of a Roman rump state based out of Anatolia that uses them to gain control of Caucasian Albania and sets them up as clients there. This could be the first step of the Germanicization of the area.

I think that the area of the "Balkan States" (Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro) is going to mostly remain Illyrian-speaking in the countryside and Latin-speaking in the cities. That is, unless the Huns decide to move people here, which they might. Depends on how the Illyrians react to their rule. I know the Huns will definitely be massacring most of the people in the cities of the region and raising said cities to the ground, so... it could be that Illyrians populate the new cities and Magyars, Alans, and Dacian's are moved into the countryside during this time?
 
I would like too see Christianity not die out and remains a sizable minority along with things like Manichaeism and Judaism. While pagan's make the majority future emperor's still of to have grapple with the reality of ruling a multi religious empire. Think China or the Mughal empire.

Seconds have East Germanic tribes settle in Britain.
 
I would like too see Christianity not die out and remains a sizable minority along with things like Manichaeism and Judaism. While pagan's make the majority future emperor's still of to have grapple with the reality of ruling a multi religious empire. Think China or the Mughal empire.

This will not be happening. Technically-speaking, it's the Christians that couldn't live in a multi-religious empire. They sort of piloted the idea of orthodoxy over orthopraxis. The best I'm willing to give them is surviving as itinerants in Europe.

Seconds have East Germanic tribes settle in Britain.

I mean, there's quite a few East Germanic groups to move around, so... we could do Goths in Azerbaijan and Vandals in Britain.
 
This will not be happening. Technically-speaking, it's the Christians that couldn't live in a multi-religious empire. They sort of piloted the idea of orthodoxy over orthopraxis. The best I'm willing to give them is surviving as itinerants in Europe.



I mean, there's quite a few East Germanic groups to move around, so... we could do Goths in Azerbaijan and Vandals in Britain.
Christianity can survive as a minority religion. See the Islamic world and the Saint Thomas Christians. And at this point Christianity is probably to deeply rooted wipe out . Curb yes but its here to say four a couple centuries at least
 
Christianity can survive as a minority religion. See the Islamic world and the Saint Thomas Christians. And at this point Christianity is probably to deeply rooted wipe out . Curb yes but its here to say four a couple centuries at least
Nobody said it “can’t”, and nobody said that it wouldn’t. I said I’m willing to make Christians an itinerant minority in the future. For now though, I entirely disagree that it was too “deeply rooted” by the time of Julian to be rendered politically irrelevant within a couple of generations, especially with a state sponsored competitor and a very, very long reign for Julian.
 
I honestly haven't given a lot of thought to how I would like to resurrect Mesopotamian religion, but I know that it will happen through Harran, and that it will likely come in the form of a religion that tries to syncretize the disparate Abrahamic, Dharmic, and Pagan religions of the area. If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them. I need to read up on the religion of Harran.
Well the Akkadian polytheism of Harran was very distinctly focused on the Moon God Sin and the mesopotamian astrological deities in general. In fact the Gods of the classical planets were worshipped widely still in southern Mesopotamia as attested to the fact that corruptions of them remained a consistent part of the folk magic of southern Mesopotamia (and in Mandaeism). Many aspects of Mesopotamian polytheism remind me of Abrahamic religion; the Idea of submission to the Gods who created mankind for the purpose of adoring them and to assist in maintaining order across the world, their devotees were intensely devoted to them but also fearful of divine wrath, and also the Mesopotamian Gods were believed to also control demons and disease and be capable of inflicting harm on humans (This is pretty sharply contrasted with the Neoplatonic view of deities). While archeological evidence of cuneiform past the 2nd century doesn’t exist IIRC (at least what’s in the anglophone record that’s been translated, I read somewhere that there’s lots of cuneiform tablets that never got translated due to political instability but can’t remember where so take that with a grain of salt). There was also substantial Hellenistic influences in Seleucid-Arsacid Mesopotamia that didn’t vanish until the Iranicization of the empire under the Sassanians.

That being said it’s not like Mesopotamian polytheism actually vanished by the POD even when Parthian era temples went into decline personal religion was still very much alive. You said you wanted Buddhism to make inroads into the Near east and influence this neo-Mesopotamian polytheism so here’s my idea; The neo-Mesopotamian religion would primarily focus on the Planetary Gods and would be a mystical fusion of folk religion, Neoplatonism, and south Arab mysticism established by fleeing Sabaean priests (in waves). Reincarnation could be taken from Neoplatonism or Buddhism (or a combo of them) with Nergal being a sort of Yama-Hades type wrathful deity figure who controls the cycle of life. The Gods would be seen as having made a covenant with mankind that needs to be upheld to ensure proper order, and if it’s broken humans would invite themselves to the influence of demons or Chaos of some sort. It would remain a localized religious movement until it manages to convert the leader of an Arab tribe who establishes his own kingdom in Mesopotamia. Kings could be the subject of deification or liberation from Fate at the hands of the Gods who are the masters of destiny. Perhaps the Pandaemonium of this religion could be something influenced by the Judaic presence in Mesopotamia, and demons are seen as born of humans own disobedience of the Gods.

Aaaaah! I had not thought of this. Sure, that could happen. What if they become itinerants, like the Roma or the Sinti?
I think it’s possible but it’s be more likely imo if some of them remained more cloistered and sedentary in remote regions like the Taurus mountains. But it’s not outside the real of possibility, perhaps some cruel Hunnic overlord has a bone to pick with Christians so he declares them to be unable to own land, turning them into wanderers or semi-nomads.
 
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- stronger diocesan caesar as subordinate to Augusti
- early division of power with judiciary and censorate to rival civil administration
- church council that made toleration goals of christian church
- ban on enslavement if Christians or Roman citizens
- Parthian resurgences as result of Ctesiphon campaign.
- ASB scenario : earlier medieval warm period to allow Roman Empire recover prosperity
- earlier Muslim agricultural revolution
- formal organisation into of mystery religions ie the Eleusinian Mysteries, Samothracian Mysteries, Mithraism, etc church like structures that are state organised and not just located on random islands
- Barbarian invasions of the 5th century as the Roman "Sixteen Kingdoms" period
- East/West split as the South/North split in China
 
Judaism

The Jewish temple would be rebuilt and a relationship first of convenience but later likely one of favorable association would begin between Hellenism and Judaism, and Jews who were still a large plurality of Palestine in the 300s become the dominant element over time. The Jews that don’t recognize the Third Temple could possibly form their own diasporic sect over time.

Wouldn't the diasporic sect just be rabbinic Judaism?
 
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