Julian II doesn't die at Maranga?

It is very difficult to prove a negative, but suppositions without evidence are just suppositions.

After all, I could "suppose" that Mitt Romney has got 5 wives, that John McCain really died in Vietnam and "John McCain" is really a KGB agent, and that Ron Paul's donors don't actually exist and all his money is either coming from George Soros or Osama bin Laden.

Yes, most Christians disliked Julian, but that doesn't mean he was fragged. Running into the thick of battle without armor is a recipe for disaster.
 
I am not so convinced... i just that the chances of a christian plot are the same with the chances of dying accidentaly in battle... Besides christians where a minority but since the lost imperial protection under julian they grew restless... Another clue that there could be a christian conspiracy is the fact that when Julian sent envoys to Rome to consult the Sibylline Books (actually what was left of them...) Christians bribed the envoys to change the prophecy so it would be ensured that julian would have met his disaster in Persia...
Conspiracy or no conspiracy we might never know... There are strong indications but no proofs... pretty much as they are strong indications but no proofs that he died accidentally...

Alright, so you think that Julian lived in constant danger of having a Christian knife slipped through his ribs . . . that's great. But barring that knife going into Julian, what do you think would have happened?
 
Hrmm.

Even if he can't stop Christianity's rise, can he keep it from being united? One of his actions to allow the teachings of heretical viewpoints; and given the church's troubles with that OTL...
 
Hrmm.

Even if he can't stop Christianity's rise, can he keep it from being united? One of his actions to allow the teachings of heretical viewpoints; and given the church's troubles with that OTL...


From my (albeit limited) understanding of the philosophical and theological undercurrents of the time, you'll likely end up with a smattering of Christian sects, various other monotheist/universalist religions (like Mithranism), some of the more esoteric philosophies (like Julian's own neo-platonism), and straight up spiritual pagan hold-outs all over the place.
 
From my (albeit limited) understanding of the philosophical and theological undercurrents of the time, you'll likely end up with a smattering of Christian sects, various other monotheist/universalist religions (like Mithranism), some of the more esoteric philosophies (like Julian's own neo-platonism), and straight up spiritual pagan hold-outs all over the place.

The Council of Nicea had already been held. From there Orthodox Christianity has been pretty well cast in stone, and OTL Christianity managed to hold together pretty well. The pull of Christianity is pretty strong on a pragmatic level for the Emperor's, since if you stay on the Church's good side, you have hundreds of bishops and millions of believers who will be told: shut-up, stay in line, he is a good guy.
 
The Council of Nicea had already been held. From there Orthodox Christianity has been pretty well cast in stone, and OTL Christianity managed to hold together pretty well. The pull of Christianity is pretty strong on a pragmatic level for the Emperor's, since if you stay on the Church's good side, you have hundreds of bishops and millions of believers who will be told: shut-up, stay in line, he is a good guy.

Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Catholic, Presbytarian, Lutheran, etc. etc.

There were plenty of heresies even after Nicaea, encompassing major parts of the Empire such as Egypt and the Near East.
 
Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Catholic, Presbytarian, Lutheran, etc. etc.

There were plenty of heresies even after Nicaea, encompassing major parts of the Empire such as Egypt and the Near East.

These heresies did not crop up until after Christianity became the unassailably pre-eminent religion of the Empire. All the institutional splits between East and West, and between Constantinople and Alexandria, all were between Nicean Christians who were divided over other stuff. The major Nicean-deniers, like Arianism or Nestorism, never were able to get an institutional foothold.
 
Again, I'm not expert (My main historical interests are political and economical, although I do do a lot of reading on Renaissance humanism), but wouldn't heresies like Arianism count? Meletius, too, led a small schism from the Creed.

Especially under the wing of an astute pagan Emperor, smaller sects of Christianity could easily survive and grow.

Even with just one Orthodox church, though, there were several other universalist religions out there competing with Christianity.
 
These heresies did not crop up until after Christianity became the unassailably pre-eminent religion of the Empire. All the institutional splits between East and West, and between Constantinople and Alexandria, all were between Nicean Christians who were divided over other stuff. The major Nicean-deniers, like Arianism or Nestorism, never were able to get an institutional foothold.

I'm not sure I agree; what were Arians doing in Ostrogoth Italy and North Africa, then?

Okay, these were the religions of barbarian tribes, but they had their own institutions.
 
I think Arians were numerically dominant in some places within the Empire, like Constantinople itself.

Julian might have the entire population of The City as a bodyguard if he continues toleration of the different Christian sects (rather than the Arian persecution of the Orthodox and the Orthodox persecution of the Arians, which was the norm depending on who was Emperor).
 
Again, I'm not expert (My main historical interests are political and economical, although I do do a lot of reading on Renaissance humanism), but wouldn't heresies like Arianism count? Meletius, too, led a small schism from the Creed.

Especially under the wing of an astute pagan Emperor, smaller sects of Christianity could easily survive and grow.
The thing that your missing is that there were a series of Arian Emperors, and many high-ranking church officials followed the heresy. It was during one of these Arian Emperors' reigns that the Goths were converted to Christianity of the Arian heretic persuasion. However, despite this high-level support, the Arians with their anti-Nicaean heresy were never able to gain control and make their heretical ideas official church theology.

These were CHRISTIAN Emperors, practicing one of the most popular heresies that Nicean Orthodoxy ever faced, who put their own supporters of the same heretical persuasion into positions of power within in the Church. And they were unable to turn back Nicaea.

So what was an Apostate Emperor, who was opposed to the very idea of Christianity, and committed to the creation of what would have essentially amounted to a Neo-Platonic/Pagan Catholic Church, going to do?

Even with just one Orthodox church, though, there were several other universalist religions out there competing with Christianity.
Christianity was head and shoulders more organized than the other religions. Nicaea was demonstrative of the organization of the Christian Church. Hundreds of bishops, dividing the Empire into neat little territories, in charge of specific populations, all preaching the same message, "There is one holy catholic apostlic church . . ." it was powerful stuff as OTL demonstrated.

So have fun breaking that up, cause no one was able to OTL.

I'm not sure I agree; what were Arians doing in Ostrogoth Italy and North Africa, then?

Okay, these were the religions of barbarian tribes, but they had their own institutions.
The Germanic tribes who converted to Arian Christianity maintained a parallel clergy, but they maintained it because their Arian heresy kept them apart from the Roman population. The Germans wanted to maintain themselves as the political and military elite, and the best way to keep from mixing was to run parallel legal and religious systems, which they did. At the point that the Germans were maintaining their own Arian clergy however, the larger battle between Arians and Nicaeans over who would control the Christian Church had been won by the Nicaeans.
 
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I think Julian permitted the Jews to try to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, but that didn't get done due to some construction problems (Christian sources claim the fire of God, while more skeptical sources claim some natural-gas problems).

If he lives longer, perhaps they give it another go? The reconstruction of the Temple might cause some eschatological problems re: Christians.
 
With Julian alive the only problem he has is to convince the old fashioned pagans to accept his Neo-platonical Paganism... To many pagans (especially in Western parts of the Empire) this Neoplatonism seemed more like a sect of the old paganism enriched with many Eastern traditions and rituals... If Julian survived Maranga there could be old fashioned pagan rebellions in the West... an early split of the Empire perhaps? A Neoplatonist East and an old-fashioned Paganism in the West?
 
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