Judaism if Maccabees fail

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ilúphatar

Ilúphatar

The Maccabean Revolt was in many ways more of a rebellion by traditionalist Jews against a Hellenised elite, rather than the Seleucid government itself. These Hellenistic Jews were entertaining the idea of religious syncretism with the Hellenistic pantheon and other local systems (e.g. Phoenician, Mesopotamian). So if the Seleucids and their Jewish supporters (High Priest Menelaus and crew) won you might see the Jewish God equated with Zeus and Baal. It's difficult to say whether Jerusalemite Judaism would actually become polytheistic in that scenario - my instinct says probably not, although it might become more culturally acceptable to participate in non-Jewish religious festivals and such like.

I say 'Jerusalemite Judaism' because there were many Jews outside of Judaea who experienced a different set of circumstances. There was a large community of Jews in Ptolemaic Egypt, for example, who were led by Onias IV (son of Onias III and nephew of Jason, who received the High Priestly office instead of him). They even established a Jewish temple at Leontopolis at some stage, either in response to Antiochus IV's Epiphanes' desecration of the Jerusalem Temple or the failure of the Hasmoneans to invite him back after their victory. In a scenario where the Maccabees are crushed, you would probably see a more traditionalist strain of Judaism centred in Egypt compete with the more syncretist Jerusalemite sect for influence over the Jewish people. Depending upon how assimilated the Hellenistic Jews became, you could see another Samaritan-esque group of 'semi-Jewish' people emerge in Judaea, whilst 'true' Jews survive in traditionalist clusters amongst the Diaspora. A body of traditionalist Jews would probably also survive in Judaea itself, doubtless persecuted for their allegiance to a High Priest under Ptolemaic protection rather than the compliant Seleucid appointment.
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
Iluvatar said:
The Maccabean Revolt was in many ways more of a rebellion by traditionalist Jews against a Hellenised elite, rather than the Seleucid government itself. These Hellenistic Jews were entertaining the idea of religious syncretism with the Hellenistic pantheon and other local systems (e.g. Phoenician, Mesopotamian). So if the Seleucids and their Jewish supporters (High Priest Menelaus and crew) won you might see the Jewish God equated with Zeus and Baal. It's difficult to say whether Jerusalemite Judaism would actually become polytheistic in that scenario - my instinct says probably not, although it might become more culturally acceptable to participate in non-Jewish religious festivals and such like.

I say 'Jerusalemite Judaism' because there were many Jews outside of Judaea who experienced a different set of circumstances. There was a large community of Jews in Ptolemaic Egypt, for example, who were led by Onias IV (son of Onias III and nephew of Jason, who received the High Priestly office instead of him). They even established a Jewish temple at Leontopolis at some stage, either in response to Antiochus IV's Epiphanes' desecration of the Jerusalem Temple or the failure of the Hasmoneans to invite him back after their victory. In a scenario where the Maccabees are crushed, you would probably see a more traditionalist strain of Judaism centred in Egypt compete with the more syncretist Jerusalemite sect for influence over the Jewish people. Depending upon how assimilated the Hellenistic Jews became, you could see another Samaritan-esque group of 'semi-Jewish' people emerge in Judaea, whilst 'true' Jews survive in traditionalist clusters amongst the Diaspora. A body of traditionalist Jews would probably also survive in Judaea itself, doubtless persecuted for their allegiance to a High Priest under Ptolemaic protection rather than the compliant Seleucid appointment.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put so much effort into answering such a low effort OP. These simple no-context questions belong in the miscellaneous thread. Best to report and move on.
 
Aluma

Aluma

Iluvatar said:
whilst 'true' Jews survive in traditionalist clusters amongst the Diaspora. A body of traditionalist Jews would probably also survive in Judaea itself, doubtless persecuted for their allegiance to a High Priest under Ptolemaic protection rather than the compliant Seleucid appointment.
Click to expand...
Maybe that could lead to a messianic restorationist cult like a reverse Christianity of sorts?

Just something to ponder about before the bear inevitably comes to this thread
 

cerebus

Dagoth Ur said:
I wouldn't put so much effort into answering such a low effort OP. These simple no-context questions belong in the miscellaneous thread. Best to report and move on.
Click to expand...
Except I found the reply both interesting and informative and I would like to thank Iluvatar. This is the sort of post that makes reading the site worth while.
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
cerebus said:
Except I found the reply both interesting and informative and I would like to thank Iluvatar. This is the sort of post that makes reading the site worth while.
Click to expand...
I agree, their answer was excellent. Reading back, what I wrote was too harsh. The point remains, both question and answer could have been in the miscellaneous thread. If the board was low volume it wouldn't matter, but if even a dozen posters had a one or two sentence question and made a thread for it, soon over half the front page would be very short threads consisting of a simple question and reply.
 

octoberman

Banned
Iluvatar said:
The Maccabean Revolt was in many ways more of a rebellion by traditionalist Jews against a Hellenised elite, rather than the Seleucid government itself. These Hellenistic Jews were entertaining the idea of religious syncretism with the Hellenistic pantheon and other local systems (e.g. Phoenician, Mesopotamian). So if the Seleucids and their Jewish supporters (High Priest Menelaus and crew) won you might see the Jewish God equated with Zeus and Baal. It's difficult to say whether Jerusalemite Judaism would actually become polytheistic in that scenario - my instinct says probably not, although it might become more culturally acceptable to participate in non-Jewish religious festivals and such like.

I say 'Jerusalemite Judaism' because there were many Jews outside of Judaea who experienced a different set of circumstances. There was a large community of Jews in Ptolemaic Egypt, for example, who were led by Onias IV (son of Onias III and nephew of Jason, who received the High Priestly office instead of him). They even established a Jewish temple at Leontopolis at some stage, either in response to Antiochus IV's Epiphanes' desecration of the Jerusalem Temple or the failure of the Hasmoneans to invite him back after their victory. In a scenario where the Maccabees are crushed, you would probably see a more traditionalist strain of Judaism centred in Egypt compete with the more syncretist Jerusalemite sect for influence over the Jewish people. Depending upon how assimilated the Hellenistic Jews became, you could see another Samaritan-esque group of 'semi-Jewish' people emerge in Judaea, whilst 'true' Jews survive in traditionalist clusters amongst the Diaspora. A body of traditionalist Jews would probably also survive in Judaea itself, doubtless persecuted for their allegiance to a High Priest under Ptolemaic protection rather than the compliant Seleucid appointment.
Click to expand...
Oh I instead expected a lot more hellenization enough to remove any chance of Christianity or Islam ever emerging
 
Metempsychosis

Metempsychosis

octoberman said:
i just want PODs to be most impactful
Click to expand...
You should write up a post with more thought and effort instead of tossing out single-line questions, otherwise just post questions in the Miscellaneous thread. Think about what effects the PoD would have, and post them alongside your question so it doesn't feel lazy.
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top