Joseph I marries Elizabeth Charlotte of Orléans

I remember reading that at one point it was suggested that Elizabeth Charlotte or Orleans daughter of the duke of Orléans marry archduke Joseph, later Joseph I, as part of a move to bring peace between the habsburgs and France, but for whatever reason this didn’t go through.

My question, is what if it has? Elizabeth is closer in age to Joseph. Therefore potentially making their relationship somewhat better, she was also fertile, producing five surviving children orl.

If they marry in say 1696 could they produce perhaps four children before either dies or so? If so what does this change?
 
I remember reading that at one point it was suggested that Elizabeth Charlotte or Orleans daughter of the duke of Orléans marry archduke Joseph, later Joseph I, as part of a move to bring peace between the habsburgs and France, but for whatever reason this didn’t go through.

My question, is what if it has? Elizabeth is closer in age to Joseph. Therefore potentially making their relationship somewhat better, she was also fertile, producing five surviving children orl.

If they marry in say 1696 could they produce perhaps four children before either dies or so? If so what does this change?
Well one or two sons of Joseph I will keep his brother Karl as the coalition candidate for the Spanish Crown likely making the Spanish war of Succession longer and forcing everyone to give him a big compensation in the final treaties (Naples and Sicily will both go to the one between Charles of Austria and Philip of Anjou who will lose Spain. Spanish Netherlands will still likely go to Austria while Milan to the Duke of Savoy or the one between France and Austria who lost Spain or to the Duke of Lorraine in exchange of his ancestral lands).

That unless the wedding is enough to persuade France and Austria to resolve pacifically the Spanish sucession (in that case Archduke Karl will became by defaut King Carlos III of Spain)
 
Well one or two sons of Joseph I will keep his brother Karl as the coalition candidate for the Spanish Crown likely making the Spanish war of Succession longer and forcing everyone to give him a big compensation in the final treaties (Naples and Sicily will both go to the one between Charles of Austria and Philip of Anjou who will lose Spain. Spanish Netherlands will still likely go to Austria while Milan to the Duke of Savoy or the one between France and Austria who lost Spain or to the Duke of Lorraine in exchange of his ancestral lands).

That unless the wedding is enough to persuade France and Austria to resolve pacifically the Spanish sucession (in that case Archduke Karl will became by defaut King Carlos III of Spain)
Interesting, if there is a peaceful handover would we see Carlos married to a French princess if there is one available?
 
Interesting, if there is a peaceful handover would we see Carlos married to a French princess if there is one available?
French princesses of the right rank were missing, but the France will likely offer Maria Luisa Gabriella of Savoy for Charles as she was both the younger daughter of Anne Marie of Orleans (and so Louis XIV's great niece) and the younger sister of Marie Adélaïde, Duchess of Bourgogne (and destined to become the next queen of France). OTL Maria Luisa married Anjou and became Queen of Spain here she will still be Queen of Spain as wife of Carlos III instead of Felipe V.
Or we can use butterflies and having "Marie Anne" of France born instead of Charles, Duke of Berry and have her as Queen of Carlos III
 
French princesses of the right rank were missing, but the France will likely offer Maria Luisa Gabriella of Savoy for Charles as she was both the younger daughter of Anne Marie of Orleans (and so Louis XIV's great niece) and the younger sister of Marie Adélaïde, Duchess of Bourgogne (and destined to become the next queen of France). OTL Maria Luisa married Anjou and became Queen of Spain here she will still be Queen of Spain as wife of Carlos III instead of Felipe V.
Or we can use butterflies and having "Marie Anne" of France born instead of Charles, Duke of Berry and have her as Queen of Carlos III
Hmm I think Marie Anne, a female version of the duke of Berry would be good for Charles III,
 
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Would Elizabeth and Joseph be closer due to the smaller age difference? And would Carlos be as inept as king of Spain as he was holy roman emperor?
 
Not gonna happen. Josef I openly said he would never let a French woman his bed (paraphrasing here) and was determined to marry a German. Second, the war only ended in 1698, so no marriage would happen until then. Finally, by the time of Josef's marriage the Bourbon-Hasburg breach was pretty much insolvable due to the Spanish succession crisis. The Emperor would want recognition of his rights to the entire Spanish Empire to be part of the marriage treaty, something the Sun King would never do. So while not a bad idea, Vienna was uninterested in a French match and Versailles wouldn't be willing to pay the price for a French Empress.
 
Not gonna happen. Josef I openly said he would never let a French woman his bed (paraphrasing here) and was determined to marry a German. Second, the war only ended in 1698, so no marriage would happen until then. Finally, by the time of Josef's marriage the Bourbon-Hasburg breach was pretty much insolvable due to the Spanish succession crisis. The Emperor would want recognition of his rights to the entire Spanish Empire to be part of the marriage treaty, something the Sun King would never do. So while not a bad idea, Vienna was uninterested in a French match and Versailles wouldn't be willing to pay the price for a French Empress.
I think who if Louis XIV had an available grandaughter to marry to Charles and uniting the claims plus France can get something from it (like Spanish Netherlands or a Milan/Lorraine exchange or Milan/Naples and an archduchess for Anjou) or maybe one of Anjou/Berry die early and the other is born a girl so Louis is unable to offer a realistic alternative candidate to Archduke Charles for Spain, the matches can go on
 
Not gonna happen. Josef I openly said he would never let a French woman his bed (paraphrasing here) and was determined to marry a German. Second, the war only ended in 1698, so no marriage would happen until then. Finally, by the time of Josef's marriage the Bourbon-Hasburg breach was pretty much insolvable due to the Spanish succession crisis. The Emperor would want recognition of his rights to the entire Spanish Empire to be part of the marriage treaty, something the Sun King would never do. So while not a bad idea, Vienna was uninterested in a French match and Versailles wouldn't be willing to pay the price for a French Empress.
Hmm interesting was there a viable alternate to Wilhelmina then?
 
Hmm interesting was there a viable alternate to Wilhelmina then?

Not really. Josef's mother and uncle tried to persuade him not to marry Wilhelmine (I think it was on grounds of age, but ICR where I read it, wikipedia just sort of repeats that Eleonore chose Wilhelmine as a daughter in law) and marry someone else instead. However, Josef was sort of set that he wanted Mina.
 
Not really. Josef's mother and uncle tried to persuade him not to marry Wilhelmine (I think it was on grounds of age, but ICR where I read it, wikipedia just sort of repeats that Eleonore chose Wilhelmine as a daughter in law) and marry someone else instead. However, Josef was sort of set that he wanted Mina.
Interesting I wonder why
 
Not really. Josef's mother and uncle tried to persuade him not to marry Wilhelmine (I think it was on grounds of age, but ICR where I read it, wikipedia just sort of repeats that Eleonore chose Wilhelmine as a daughter in law) and marry someone else instead. However, Josef was sort of set that he wanted Mina.
His uncle ok, but his mother? She had choised Wilhelmine and groomed her as perfect daughter-in-law and wanted and older girl for keeping under control her son sexual appetite so I will exclude her as against the match
 
His uncle ok, but his mother? She had choised Wilhelmine and groomed her as perfect daughter-in-law and wanted and older girl for keeping under control her son sexual appetite so I will exclude her as against the match

Did she think someone closer to his age wouldn't be able to control it?
 
Did she think someone closer to his age wouldn't be able to control it?

I think it may have been more a case of like with Louis XV, that if they still had to wait for the bride to reach the appropriate age before the hanky-panky started it could lead to all sorts of problems - too long to secure the succession; an unchallenged mistress etc...
 
I think it may have been more a case of like with Louis XV, that if they still had to wait for the bride to reach the appropriate age before the hanky-panky started it could lead to all sorts of problems - too long to secure the succession; an unchallenged mistress etc...
At this is true
 
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