Joint Fleet X in 1929...

That Island was still ridiculously over sized, unbalancing the ship and taking up valuable deck space that should have been available for the ship's main armament, it's aircraft. With the Washington treaty she still counted towards the British Carrier allowance, being classed as experimental just meant she could be replaced whenever the RN wanted to.
Not to mention that massive spotting top, that looks like it was for one of Hood's Sisters.
I always thought Hermes was a really Ugly ship.
 
That Island was still ridiculously over sized, unbalancing the ship and taking up valuable deck space that should have been available for the ship's main armament, it's aircraft. With the Washington treaty she still counted towards the British Carrier allowance, being classed as experimental just meant she could be replaced whenever the RN wanted to.
I expect the large island was needed for accommodation or other internal space. I'd love to see a blue print of the island, but have looked online for both Hermes' and Eagles' without success. Unlike later carriers where the space aft of the hangar was used for accommodation, on Hermes (shown below) there's nothing but open sea behind the hangar, even the aft lift is exposed to the sea on three sides (this was a design feature to allow aircraft to be moved from barges right into the hangar (see aft hangar door below during construction).

HMS+Hermes+%25281%2529.jpg


Notice how high in the water Hermes sits without her island, etc. Also shown in this video of Hermes' launch http://www.onenewspage.com/video/20170626/8282634/Unique-Ship-Hermes.htm

mpl0717.jpg


Not to mention that massive spotting top,
That was for her six 5.5" guns, none of which could be elevated for AA. So, while the island may have a need, the tripod and fighting top does not - better to replace it with a smaller mast for the RDF beacon and available radar, when available. While she'll always be slow and small, Hermes was ideal for simple modifications. Remove the tripod mast, flatten out the aft round down and remove the 5.5 guns and their magazines, etc. For a larger project, consider covering in the aft lift (provided her hull can take it).
Off the top of my head, I would have to assume that both sides would gain some additional measure of readiness from training with/against each other in a series of 'Fleet X' that took place at least once a year, in the spring-summer from 1929 to 1939.....Either the FAA gets a navalised fighter of British origin, or orders would be placed for american carrier fighters.
From 1931, Britain had one of the best naval fighters in the single seat Hawker Nimrod. Its Fairey Flycatcher predecessor wasn't bad either when it entered service in the 1920s.


Getting back to the joint RN-USN fleet exercises, give Hermes a force of 14-18 Flycatchers/Nimrod and 6-8 Dart/Baffin TSRs and she'll represent Britannia ably enough.
 
Last edited:
To deter Japanese aggression by showing the RN, RAN and USN are working together in the Pacific.
That sounds good on its face...but given IJA getting more & more of the defense budget, it's liable to have very unfortunate consequences--just as it did OTL.:eek:
 
This sounds like a good idea, but I ask myself why. Absent *NATO, what need drives joint exercises?
I was thinking along the lines of improving peace time training procedures and proficiency standards, and perhaps getting some deficiencies to come to light *Cough, cough, Torpedoes...Cough! as well as spark national pride/competition, which would be a very handy stick to apply to the political backsides of both nations, and perhaps get them to cough up the cash to pay for better equipment and training missions.
 
That sounds good on its face...but given IJA getting more & more of the defense budget, it's liable to have very unfortunate consequences--just as it did OTL.:eek:
Realistically if the budget gets increased to unsustainable amounts in 1929 (it was already far higher in % terms than the other nations) its just going to lead to collapse pre OTL WWII as starting a war v USN/RN without European distractions makes OTL look very sane...
 
So it looks like, in 1928 we could have HMS Courageous, and in 1930 HMS Glorious joining in the fleet X's.

Would there be any point to starting earlier, and using the USS Langley or HMS Hermes?

Captain Reese had been training a air group, or nominal wing on the Langley. The Saratoga & Lexington were completing construction & Reese was determined to not only have large cadres ready for their air wings, but as much doctrine as possible worked out in practical exercises.
 
I don't mean defense as a share of total, I mean IJA as a share of defense.
Not sure it could work like that, IJN and IJA hate each other so will never agree to transfer budgets.

I thought the deal with civilian v IJN v IJA was that if the IJN gets sidelined it can pull its cabinet member and collapse the government?

If IJN loses the fight it becomes just civilian v IJA so at least its only two separate powers rather than three and it may set a precedent for civilian control as the IJA may lose its power as well down the line as well?
 
Not sure it could work like that, IJN and IJA hate each other so will never agree to transfer budgets.
I wasn't proposing it...
I thought the deal with civilian v IJN v IJA was that if the IJN gets sidelined it can pull its cabinet member and collapse the government?

If IJN loses the fight it becomes just civilian v IJA so at least its only two separate powers rather than three and it may set a precedent for civilian control as the IJA may lose its power as well down the line as well?
Yeah, the Navy Minister could resign & bring down the gov't, but does that accomplish anything? If IJA is getting more & more $$ (out of a fixed "pie"), IJN is screwed no matter if the gov't falls. The fear of this is, AIUI, part of the reason IJN signed on to attacking the U.S. in '41--that, & the idea the U.S. & Britain were so closely allied, an attack on British territory in the Far East would (inevitably) bring in the U.S.

The proposal for closer USN-RN-RAN ties is a formula for having Pearl Harbor even sooner.:eek:
 
Top