John, son of Francis II Duke of Brittany survives

John, only child of Francis II and his first wife Margaret of Brittany, was born in June, 1463 and died later that year. WHat if he had survived? With a male heir, would Francis II of Brittany consider marrying again, if so, and Anne of Brittany is still born, how does this influence politics of the region and France? With Francis having a male heir, Anne becomes a marginally less attractive prospect for a french marriage would it not? Who might John marry, what might he become under his father?
 
John, only child of Francis II and his first wife Margaret of Brittany, was born in June, 1463 and died later that year. WHat if he had survived? With a male heir, would Francis II of Brittany consider marrying again, if so, and Anne of Brittany is still born, how does this influence politics of the region and France? With Francis having a male heir, Anne becomes a marginally less attractive prospect for a french marriage would it not? Who might John marry, what might he become under his father?

If John of Brittany had survived, I can see the Charles VIII of France/Margaret of Austria match going through, along with the Anne of Brittany/Maximilian of Austria match. With those matches, I can see more Austrian kids running around and maybe a longer running line from Charles VIII of France, although the Orleans line might still end up on the throne.

Speaking of Louis, Duke of Orleans, his bride might end up the Duchess of Brittany instead of of Duchess of Orleans. If that happens, then it probably won't be until 1505 for our Duke to remarry and have an heir. But most likely Joan and Louis are still a match and John of Brittany would most likely marry a Frenchwoman, maybe Anne d'Orleans.

An idea:

Francis II, Duke of Brittany (b.1433: d.1488) m. Margaret of Brittany (b.1443: d.1469) (a), Margaret of Foix (b.1449: d.1486) (a)

1a) John VII, Duke of Brittany (b.1463) m. Anne d'Orléans (b.1464: d.1491) (a), Françoise of Luxembourg (b.1470: d.1523) (b)

1a) Margaret of Brittany (b.1488)

2b) Joan of Brittany (b.1493)

3b) Charles of Brittany (b.1497: d.1500)

4b) Francis, Count of Montfort (b.1499)​

2b) Anne of Brittany (b.1477: d.1514) m. Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1459: d.1519) (a)

1a) Charles of Austria (b.1494: d.1498)

2a) Miscarriage (c.1496)

3a) Francis of Austria (b.1497)

4a) Eleanor of Austria (b.1500)

5a) Stillborn Boy (c.1504)

6a) Barbara of Austria (b.1507: d.1507)​

3b) Isabeau of Brittany (b.1478: d.1490)
Charles VIII of France (b.1470: d.1498) m. Margaret of Austria (b.1480: d.1530) (a)

1a) Charles IX of France (b.1496)

2a) Francis, Duke of Anjou (b.1498: d.1500)​
 
Okay very interesting, might we see a war between John and Charles over Brittany?

And with Maximilian marrying Anne, who might Margaret of burgundy marry and what might these mean for a possible Habsburg Spanish match?
 
Did the French King have veto rights on any marriages with the royalty of Brittany? Think IOTL a king basically kidnapped their duchess who had been engaged to another man and forcibly married her to himself or his son.
 
Did the French King have veto rights on any marriages with the royalty of Brittany? Think IOTL a king basically kidnapped their duchess who had been engaged to another man and forcibly married her to himself or his son.

Indeed Charles VIII did kidnap Anne, though, whether or not French position is strong enough to veto any marriage option of John I do not know
 
Indeed Charles VIII did kidnap Anne, though, whether or not French position is strong enough to veto any marriage option of John I do not know

Most likely not, but they would most likely suggest brides.

Very possible, perhaps to Elizabeth of York, if the marriage is done during her father's time?

Probably not, but if we have him marry Anne d'Orleans first (a good, solid match imo), then a marriage between our Duke and one of Edward IV's daughters (Catherine or Bridget?) would be very likely as Henry VII attempts to gain a good reputation in Europe.
 
Most likely not, but they would most likely suggest brides.



Probably not, but if we have him marry Anne d'Orleans first (a good, solid match imo), then a marriage between our Duke and one of Edward IV's daughters (Catherine or Bridget?) would be very likely as Henry VII attempts to gain a good reputation in Europe.


Okay interesting, though would Henry VII consider marrying of one of the girls to someone who has power and resources and perhaps a will to deal a blow to him? That is if of course he ever ends up claiming the throne.
 
Okay interesting, though would Henry VII consider marrying of one of the girls to someone who has power and resources and perhaps a will to deal a blow to him? That is if of course he ever ends up claiming the throne.

He most likely would still end up King. And he had no problems offering them as brides OTL, it's just that he wouldn't provide them with dowries. He'd most likely know and be friendly with our Duke of Brittany, and thus the match could go ahead.

Francis II, Duke of Brittany (b.1433: d.1488) m. Margaret of Brittany (b.1443: d.1469) (a), Margaret of Foix (b.1449: d.1486) (a)

1a) John VII, Duke of Brittany (b.1463: d.1510) m. Anne d'Orléans (b.1464: d.1491) (a), Bridget of York (b.1480: d.1517) (b)

1a) Margaret of Brittany (b.1488: d.1513) m. Francis, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (a)

2b) Joan of Brittany (b.1497: d.1570) m. Francis, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (a)

1a) John de Valois, Count of Angouleme (b.1517)

2a) Louise d'Angouleme (b.1519: d.1522)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1520)

4a) Charles d'Angouleme (b.1522: d.1522)

5a) Madeline d'Angouleme (b.1525)

6a) Charlotte d'Angouleme (b.1527)

7a) Stillborn Son (c.1530)

8a) Henri d'Angouleme (b.1534)​

3b) Charles of Brittany (b.1498: d.1500)

4b) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1502: d.1525) m. Philiberta of Savoy (b.1498: d.1516) (a) Quiteria of Navarre (b.1499: d.1536) (b)

1a) Marie of Brittany (b.1514: d.1515)

2a) Francis IV, Duke of Brittany (b.1516)

3b) Yolande of Brittany (b.1520)

4b) Miscarriage (c.1524)

5b) John of Brittany (b.1527)​
2b) Anne of Brittany (b.1477: d.1514) m. Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1459: d.1519) (a)

1a) Charles of Austria (b.1494: d.1498)

2a) Miscarriage (c.1496)

3a) Francis of Austria, Archduke of Austria (b.1497: d.1568) m. Catherine of Navarre (b.1495: d.1525) (a), Beatrice of Portugal (b.1504: d.1541) (b)

1a) Miscarriage (c.1518)

2b) Miscarriage (c.1526)

3b) Margaret of Austria (b.1527)

4b) Miscarriage (c.1529)

5b) Stillborn Son (c.1530)

6b) Charles of Austria (b.1533: d.1534)

7b) John of Austria, Archduke of Austria (b.1535)​

4a) Eleanor of Austria (b.1500: d.1549) m. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b.1485: d.1553) (a)

1a) Charles IV, Duke of Savoy (b.1518)​

5a) Stillborn Boy (c.1504)

6a) Barbara of Austria (b.1507: d.1507)
3b) Isabeau of Brittany (b.1478: d.1490)
Charles VIII of France (b.1470: d.1498) m. Margaret of Austria (b.1480: d.1530) (a)

1a) Charles IX of France (b.1496: d.1539) m. Mary Tudor (b.1496: d.1534) (a)

1a) Marie of France (b.1514)

2a) Miscarriage (c.1517)

3a) Louis XII of France (b.1520)

4a) Anne of France (b.1522)

5a) Stillborn Boy (c.1525)

6a) Henri of France, Duke of Anjou (b.1528: d.1539)​

2a) Francis, Duke of Anjou (b.1498: d.1500)​
 
Okay interesting, what makes you say Henry VII would still likely become King?

And with regards to there being a surviving male line of the Dukes, might we see them grow more independent from French control, or perhaps fight more wars for independence?
 
The status quo of Brittany will depend in how it fares in TTL equivalent to the Mad War.

Losing the rebellion led France to accupy all but 2-3 towns in Brittany, allowing Charles VIII to effortless kidnap Anne.
 
The status quo of Brittany will depend in how it fares in TTL equivalent to the Mad War.

Losing the rebellion led France to accupy all but 2-3 towns in Brittany, allowing Charles VIII to effortless kidnap Anne.

Hmmindeed, might we see more success in Brittany, if the effort is more co-ordinated, there is more change?
 
If Francis of Brittany had a son other than Anne maybe Edward IV and Francis will arrange a double match: Edward of Wales with Anne as OTL and one of the girls (maybe Mary replaced after her death and the failure of the French match by Elizabeth) with John...
 
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