John Paul Jones succeeds

John Paul Jones, aside from having what may be the most generic name ever, is notable for undertaking an utterly batshit insane raid on England during the American Revolutionary War. Fueled by his earlier successes against merchants in the Irish Sea and his burning hatred for the Crown, Jones devised a plan which would involve invading the city of Whitehaven with his ragtag group of followers and burning the 200 plus ships in port.

Unfortunately, Jones's daring scheme was undone by two mistakes. First, one of his sailors, David Freeman, turned traitor and began the raid by running through the city warning of the impeding attack a la Paul Revere. Second, the man who he commanded to lead the party decided to invade the local pub instead, apparently feeling that getting drunk was a much better alternative to supporting the Revolution. The entire expedition became a disaster and of all the boats, Jones only succeeded in burning one.

Now, assuming that both issues are taken care of: David Freeman is found out before the assault and Jones chooses a different man to lead, what happens if they succeed in destroying the boats in port, but do not attempt to burn the city as well?

We had a thread on this before, but there seemed to be a disagreement about what would actually happen. Some seemed to believe that the raid would have destroyed any pro-rebel sentiment in Great Britain.

EDIT: I wrote this in a rush. I'll try to fix it up later
 
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Art

Monthly Donor
We do know. . .

That after the Whitehaven raid and the burning of the Marietta, there was widespread panic in Britain. Insurance rates for shipping went through the roof, and a number of opposition MPs may have been swayed to turn against the war.
The terror of similar attacks on shipping and attacks on towns would have coastal members of Parliament screaming for money for warships, coastal defences, and making peace before a permament alliance is made between France and America.

I would love to do a TL in which Jones does not end up dying in a French churchyard so obscure, when Teddy Roosevelt sends his ambassador to find Jones body to bury in Annapolis, the French thenselves do not know where he is.
Since you are investigating the time in question, which political party do you think you would be with?
Democrat-Republican or Federalist? In defense matters, I think I would be a Federalist, at least, a Adams Federalist.
Hamilton was a STRANGE person.
 
aside from britain losing 200 plus ship?

Panic... widespread manic, as everyone who knew about it would feel it could happen again, and Britain wasn't safe. At the very least, resourses and manpower are pulled out of the Colonies to protect the homeland.
 
So are we to assume that, should he succeed here, that he actually does succeed in creating a rather perfect/imperfect American navy?
 
Certainly as in OTL the massive overhand of the Royal Navy deploying to the American Colonies would allow for other European powers to make gains in Asia.
 
Well, I think that the immediate reaction would have been total panic. Even the raid in our own world had a dramatic effect on the British. No such raid had been attempted on a British seaport in over a century. Even in our own world, the attempt caused some disillusionment regarding the Royal Navy and some fear among the general public of a future attack. The British worked themselves into a frenzy despite Jones' failure. A successful attack would have had even worse effects, including a catastrophic blow to morale. It might have also riled the London Stock Exchange. It would not end the war, but it would make things unpleasant for a while.

So while the raid might unite the British public against the Americans and destroy most sympathy felt toward the rebels, the Navy would be forced withdraw forces from the Americas to protect the homestead to satisfy the sense of vulnerability. So the Revolutionaries might have a much easier time fighting without as much presence from the Navy.

Aside from being a morale booster, I am not exactly sure the Americans would react or how much they would be able to hold. It seems unlikely to me that the British would just abandon Canada or that the loyalists would appreciate being forced to join a new republic.
 
The sailors did go into the pub but it was raining heavily and the making it difficult to set fire to the shipping in the harbour. So fair weather although not clear skies may have made the difference. Given that the continental navy was run down as the war ended it probably wouldn't have made much difference apart from the annual visit by a delegtation of sailors from the US navy to be greeted by the Mayor of Copeland (includes Whitehaven) wouldn't take place
 
the Navy would be forced withdraw forces from the Americas to protect the homestead to satisfy the sense of vulnerability
How many ports do the Colonies have available to them?

Instead of withdrawing could the Royal Navy go after the ports? If it's a port city of any reasonable size it gets sacked and burned.
 
Jones' goal wasn't just to cause damage, he thought a spectacular victory would bring France and Spain to the American side.

Yes, the raid of Whitehaven was more of a dress rehearsal for The Armada of 1779, which would be a full on invasion of the British Isles by a Franco-Spanish-American coalition. It was never really attempted, despite Jones' frequent calls for it. I am kind of doubtful of the invasion's success however. Part of it relied on a popular uprising in Scotland and it seems like the Sealion of the 1700s.

Usertron also brought up the fact that France cannot join the war much earlier than it did in our world in a previous thread:

BTW, the timing of France's entry into the ARW was determined by their ability to completely refit, mobilize, and redeploy the French Fleet. The French were determined that this time the French Navy would not spend a whole war with England bottled up in their harbors. And they didn't.:) April 1778 was just about the earliest they COULD effectively DoW the British Empire, if they wanted to save their navy.
 
As an American commenting the day after the most Freedom-filled Day Ever, this would be awesome, but the only thing I can say for sure is that I think the US could get the Maine border the way it wants it, some more land around the Great Lakes, and maybe Florida if the Spanish are compensated elsewhere.

Interestingly enough, this might mean that in an alt-1812 the British will throw more resources at us and we get curbstomped, but that would never happen because we're Americans:D.
 
At a time when the British hold or are about to hold New York, Newport, Savannah and Charleston with other ports such as Hartford, Boston and Philadelphia easy prey the wisdom in an American effort to torch a relatively minor British port somehow escapes me.
 
At a time when the British hold or are about to hold New York, Newport, Savannah and Charleston with other ports such as Hartford, Boston and Philadelphia easy prey the wisdom in an American effort to torch a relatively minor British port somehow escapes me.

It was never claimed that the attempt was particularly sensible. He was given the orders to "assist the American cause however possible" but was more or less acting independently of the rest of the navy. Jones had some serious problems with authority figures which led to his demotion to a smaller fleet. The only exception might be Benjamin Franklin, who he became very close with while in France.

Jones probably only had a vague idea what was happening in the Americas
 
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