John Paul Jones, French Admiral?

[Faeelin]

A while ago, we discussed Nelson sailing for France during the revolution. I think he's unlikely to do it, being raised as an old school Briton.

Jones, however, had qualms about serving for the French navy, but was offered the job. And, he had a history of organizing crews and ships from scratch.

So, thoughts on Admiral John Paul Jones?

 

[God_of_Belac]

He'd fight one hell of a battle, but be betrayed by the same lousy suboordinates and low-quality Spanish ships that defeated Villenueve.

Each of the major French naval defeats from 1798-1805 were due to factors no admiral could stop. At the Nile, not only did Nelson's ships sneak between the French line and the shore where nobody thought possible, but the biggest French ship blew up, stopping any hope of reorganizing the French line. The Battle of the Saints wasn't really a defeat, as the French fleet was convoying a grain fleet which got through, and I can't see Jones doing anything that wasn't done OTL (fighting a fierce and close fleet-action lasting long enough to get the convoy out of harm's way). At Trafalgar, Villenueve had set up a reserve of 12 ships that were supposed to guard against breaks in the line by coming up to form a double line sandwiching any ships that got past, but the reserve was composed of spanish ships with fouled bottoms and incompetent crews, so they fell behind and couldn't prevent Nelson's strategy. Once again, there's nothing Jones could have done to overcome the lousy material he had to work with--his ship would fight to the last, but his fleet would fail.

 

[sikitu]

Each of the major French naval defeats from 1798-1805 were due to factors no admiral could stop. The Battle of the Saints wasn't really a defeat, as the French fleet was convoying a grain fleet which got through, and I can't see Jones doing anything that wasn't done OTL (fighting a fierce and close fleet-action lasting long enough to get the convoy out of harm's way). At Trafalgar, Villenueve had set up a reserve of 12 ships that were supposed to guard against breaks in the line by coming up to form a double line sandwiching any ships that got past, but the reserve was composed of spanish ships with fouled bottoms and incompetent crews, so they fell behind and couldn't prevent Nelson's strategy. Once again, there's nothing Jones could have done to overcome the lousy material he had to work with--his ship would fight to the last, but his fleet would fail.

Hmm, sorry, but...that was not the Saintes (took place in the American War of Independence) but the Glorious First of June, 1794. Anyway, your strategic analysis of the outcome is flawless.

On the other hand, while I agree on the comments concerning the Spanish crews, imho the French ship designs were generally better than contemporary British ones. They only had a lack of competent crews and officers. Nevertheless, I do not see Jones changing that.

 

[DuQuense]

Butterflies

One of the Big Chances of JPJ going with the French, would be the Change in "Catherine the Greats" Black Sea Fleet.