Joe Steele: What next?
- Thread starter Zoidberg12
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I wonder, though, how much actual popular support J.Edgar would actually have. In fact, as we were going on about convergence perhaps Ike could lead the resurgence of Democracy--though ITTL he does have the taint of association as part of Steele's show-trial circuses which might disqualify him 
I think its also possible Hoover could die sooner, the weight/pressure of the "Dictator-Presidency" bringing about an earlier death
I think its also possible Hoover could die sooner, the weight/pressure of the "Dictator-Presidency" bringing about an earlier death
I wonder, though, how much actual popular support J.Edgar would actually have. In fact, as we were going on about convergence perhaps Ike could lead the resurgence of Democracy--though ITTL he does have the taint of association as part of Steele's show-trial circuses which might disqualify him
I think its also possible Hoover could die sooner, the weight/pressure of the "Dictator-Presidency" bringing about an earlier death
If Charlie's reaction to Hoover's coup is indicative of anything, he would basically be seen as an American Hitler. However popular Joe Steele was, the fact that even at the time of his death so many people were privately gossiping about the GBI and their midnight raids is indicative of Hoover actually being more feared than respected by the American people.
I'm thinking he either gets sent to a labor camp or he gets executed based on trumped up charges
Damn. I couldn't help but think that maybe if he gets sent to a labor camp, Nixon could possibly get him out because he might have use for Charlie. I know that may seem far fetched, but a guy can dream, right?
Hoover won't last long in power. He likely gets shot, or exile with Nixon being the be the Khrushchev of the USA.
The USSR focus far more on 'spending the revolution' across the world, but end up bankrupting themselves with constant wars, and international sanctions. (A likely one.)
No NATO. Western Europe does it own thing for the most part between the rock and the hard place.
A Sino-Soviet split still happens, but in the wake of the US status/omnipresent, the two patch things up. Maybe even the USSR go on to take on a Maoist stance.
Canada becomes the site of counter-culture and more so to escape Steel's purges and even after Nixon takes place.
The USSR focus far more on 'spending the revolution' across the world, but end up bankrupting themselves with constant wars, and international sanctions. (A likely one.)
No NATO. Western Europe does it own thing for the most part between the rock and the hard place.
A Sino-Soviet split still happens, but in the wake of the US status/omnipresent, the two patch things up. Maybe even the USSR go on to take on a Maoist stance.
Canada becomes the site of counter-culture and more so to escape Steel's purges and even after Nixon takes place.
Beria was never top guy, not even for a moment.
Hoover has durability in his being. He was a genius at self-preservation and having himself in a position of unusual power.
In otl Hoover, born in 1895, lived until 1972, and he was director when he died. This was a position he had held since 1924.
Longevity!
Director Hoover would be around for a long, long time and woe to anyone who hopes (or even contemplates) otherwise.
If you want a nice "Holy F---" picture, here is one from 1939 of Hoover taking John Nance Garner's fingerprints,
On a slight tangent: How skilled and masterly is LBJ?
He made J. Edgar Hoover laugh.
I don't know if this was an especially difficult thing, but I am impressed.
He made J. Edgar Hoover laugh.
I don't know if this was an especially difficult thing, but I am impressed.
In my opinion, Charles's best bet is moving to Canada.
J. Edgar might even let him.
J. Edgar might even let him.
The chances of a much stronger and more assertive Entente Cordiale, or even a Franco-British Union, are much higher ITTL. Britain and France are going to be rather dissatisfied with their disadvantaged position vis a vis the US and USSR. Also included in this alliance, perhaps an expanded Entente, will be Luxembourg, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, and Norway.
Spain will be too distasteful for a while, but if the the external threats to Western Europe are great enough, some sort of understanding with Franco is probably possible. Portugal has less fascistic stigma, not having been aided by the Nazis, so their inclusion is also likely.
Italy depends on internal politics - if Britain feels threatened enough, they may enforce the Kingdom of Italy through an occupation of at least some areas of the country. However, the US may 'reorganise' parts of Italy for its own benefit in parallel. Ireland may join if it can get over its historical antagonism with Britain.
Sweden, Switzerland and Liechtenstein probably stay neutral; they have little reason to change this stance. Finland is... well... Finlandised, unless Trotsky is very insistent on perpetual revolution. The Balkans are a mystery - Greece will probably end up in the American rather than Franco-British sphere, because the UK had to pass its responsibilities to America IOTL. The rest are probable Soviet satellites, except perhaps for Yugoslavia.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand will not be impressed with American authoritarianism. This will probably see a more cohesive Commonwealth bloc, with Canada especially seeking assurances (I know I would if I lived next door to Stalin). Perhaps a belated form of 'Imperial Federation' could emerge from the British Empire - India will leave, but elements within Malaysia and the Gulf States, for instance, favoured continued ties to Britain. A similar theme within the French Union could also take place, though the Indochinese and the Algerians will probably seek their independence also. Any 'Imperial' bloc will need to be based on willing participation, otherwise American or Soviet-backed independence movements will make holding the colonies unsustainable.
3 way Cold War, with a bit more cooperation between the US and Europe than between Europe and the USSR?
Spain will be too distasteful for a while, but if the the external threats to Western Europe are great enough, some sort of understanding with Franco is probably possible. Portugal has less fascistic stigma, not having been aided by the Nazis, so their inclusion is also likely.
Italy depends on internal politics - if Britain feels threatened enough, they may enforce the Kingdom of Italy through an occupation of at least some areas of the country. However, the US may 'reorganise' parts of Italy for its own benefit in parallel. Ireland may join if it can get over its historical antagonism with Britain.
Sweden, Switzerland and Liechtenstein probably stay neutral; they have little reason to change this stance. Finland is... well... Finlandised, unless Trotsky is very insistent on perpetual revolution. The Balkans are a mystery - Greece will probably end up in the American rather than Franco-British sphere, because the UK had to pass its responsibilities to America IOTL. The rest are probable Soviet satellites, except perhaps for Yugoslavia.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand will not be impressed with American authoritarianism. This will probably see a more cohesive Commonwealth bloc, with Canada especially seeking assurances (I know I would if I lived next door to Stalin). Perhaps a belated form of 'Imperial Federation' could emerge from the British Empire - India will leave, but elements within Malaysia and the Gulf States, for instance, favoured continued ties to Britain. A similar theme within the French Union could also take place, though the Indochinese and the Algerians will probably seek their independence also. Any 'Imperial' bloc will need to be based on willing participation, otherwise American or Soviet-backed independence movements will make holding the colonies unsustainable.
3 way Cold War, with a bit more cooperation between the US and Europe than between Europe and the USSR?
Why would Hoover let Charlie go to Canada? The book ended right when Charlie was about to be arrested by GBI men.
That part, I missed. I remember a sardonic "Heil Hoover!" followed by unresolved dread.
If Turtledove does make another book set in this world, I do hope Charlie is still one of the POV characters. Mike probably won't be, his story, from the looks of it, appears to be over.