Uhoh, Jimmy gonna take Holtzman to the wood shed. He doesn't forget things like that.
Jimmy Two: America in Carter's Second Term
- Thread starter Vidal
- Start date
Great TL, though I debate if Stewart would have retired under a Carter WH.
Of course you could see Brennan or Marshall step down so there would still be a vacancy
Of course you could see Brennan or Marshall step down so there would still be a vacancy
Vidal
Donor
I did mull it over but ultimately decided he would for a few reasons:
1) He was a pretty non ideological swing vote appointed by a centrist Republican. Leaving under a centrist Democrat, he’s probably not too worried about the fact that Carter will be replacing him, especially because Carter implemented nonpartisan review processes for lower Court appointments.
2) This was a time before calculated retirement decisions. Certainly there were some, but plenty did not really let that timing factor into their decision.
I do not believe so, but with Carter having a second term I could see him wanting to pass some minor tax cuts that wouldn't balloon the deficit and help lower to middle class people. Some things here would appease both Democratic and Republican. Tax Cuts would appeal to Republicans, minimum wage being raised would appease to Democrats and with these cuts targeted towards the average person it could be a popular move that could (fingers crossed) get the economy going full steam ahead and hopefully not make inflation worse. This to me seems like it could pass, or at least a variation of this, and won't have the stain or harm of Reaganomics.
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Vidal
Donor
Gotcha! Carter actually proposed suspending his tax cuts by a year as he was leaving office. I cover that tax debate in Chapter 11. I think you're right though that if the economy starts to recover and the nation can afford his tax cuts, he'll want them.
This chapter was a great reminder that even though this is a timeline about Carter winning re-election and consigning Reagan to the dustbin of history (well, that's overstating it, but y'know), things aren't going to be easy. Jimmy is still Jimmy — stubborn as a mule and with a tendency to get stuck in his own head. The Kirbo nomination is so obviously problematic that it's hair-pullingly-frustrating that Carter doesn't see any issue. Which in turn makes Carter's confusion that people aren't on board because Charlie's such a great guy!, and later putting the blame on this town when it predictably goes sideways, very darkly funny. A very complex character, this Jimmy Carter. I like how you write him.
Though, I admit I'm a bit unsure of what's driving Biden's behaviour here, voicing nothing but support for Kirbo's nomination. Is he blinded by his loyalty (or friendship) to Carter, or does he know it'll be difficult but thinks bringing it over the line will prove his worth to Carter? I'm going back-and-forth on how to read him…
The AIDS subplot here is sad. It's a great glimmer of hope that Carter recognizes the threat of this "pneumonia" and restores funding to the CDC, of course. And it's wonderful to see Carter shooting down a reporter for cracking a joke about it, in a sort of reversal to that infamous press conference where a journalist asks about AIDS and the Reagan press secretary laughs him off. But then seeing Carter's response spark a small moral panic on the right… it's realistic, I can't blame you. But man… the '80s were a rough time.
Though, I admit I'm a bit unsure of what's driving Biden's behaviour here, voicing nothing but support for Kirbo's nomination. Is he blinded by his loyalty (or friendship) to Carter, or does he know it'll be difficult but thinks bringing it over the line will prove his worth to Carter? I'm going back-and-forth on how to read him…
The AIDS subplot here is sad. It's a great glimmer of hope that Carter recognizes the threat of this "pneumonia" and restores funding to the CDC, of course. And it's wonderful to see Carter shooting down a reporter for cracking a joke about it, in a sort of reversal to that infamous press conference where a journalist asks about AIDS and the Reagan press secretary laughs him off. But then seeing Carter's response spark a small moral panic on the right… it's realistic, I can't blame you. But man… the '80s were a rough time.
So, @Vidal something in that figured you'd be interested in. There's this guy by the name of Darryl Davis, who over the years has convinced hundreds of men to leave the Klu Klux Klan. I bring him up because his activism actually started during this time frame (if you want to get technical, 2 years from where we currently are ITTL). Honestly, if his activism still happens here, it would be interesting to see how it things go for him. If Carter got wind of him, I could see him inviting him to the White House and maybe even inspiring Davis to enter politics.
I doubt Davis would want to enter politics directly (not really his style or personality) but I could definitely see such a meeting taking place if his work follows a similar path as OTL.
I think, fundamentally, Biden is differential.
He trusts the President, it's the President prerogative to make a pick, and Carter did not call him into the office to strategize about who he'd prefer to see nominated.
But some of the issue here is that, while Carter obviously is making a mistake, attacking a nominee's experience was not all that common.
The Orrin Hatch part illustrates that this is still the era where the Senate is mostly differential to the President on their Supreme Court nominee, and when nominations did fail or had to be pulled it was almost entirely on specific ideological and political grounds, or sometimes due to prejudice.
But many? most? past Supreme Court Justices had no prior experience on the bench as a judge, some didn't even have much experience beyond private law practice. William Rehnquist famously had just three years of experience in the Office of Legal Counsel before Nixon nominated him to the Supreme Court. Earl Warren was the Governor of California, not some appeals court or district court judge, though he did have prior experience as California's Attorney General. FDR nominated William Douglas to the bench and all Douglas had was three years on the Securities and Exchange Commission, and Douglas is still the longest service justice in history.
Where Carter went wrong with Kirbo was that he never gave Kirbo any position to flesh out his credentials. He wasn't the solicitor general, he wasn't an assistant attorney general, he was just left in Georgia. Worse, he wasn't a Governor or State AG, so his only political relevance was his connection to Carter.
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My read on Biden is that he knew Kirbo was never going to make it, but he, Biden, a pretty canny political operator with some really great interpersonal skills. He knew it wouldn't do him any good to antagonize Carter on this, but at the same time it was was an easy win for the GOP/Holtzman. So he'd do his "best" to to get Kirbo through, but when he was inevitably blocked they'd get a far more reliable liberal justice on the bench.
Vidal
Donor
Thank you! I really appreciate that
I think that's up to you. I think in my head I view it as Good ole Joe. Ready to serve however called upon and doesn't think that there'll be any problems because there usually aren't for these sorts of things. But I like your idea that he might actually understand the trouble but wants to prove he's part of the team.
Yeah, I think what I hope to show is it isn't easy but it is worth it
I've actually met him! He came to my school to speak. That's an interesting subplot, and I'll think about if there's a way to incorporate... I see where you're going, and I like it!
Huh, that is quite interesting, to say the least.
P/s: Perhaps this had been discussed at the villa, but would the fate of Jaime Roldós and Omar Torrijos be different ITTL, since it is around this time when both of them died due to plane crashes.
People Samantha Smith and Mickey Leland are probably in the same boat there.
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Has there been any thoughts on the causes and consequences of KAL007? I would think that it would be less likely to happen since Reagan wasn't elected ITTL.
@Vidal I did quite enjoy reading this timeline. The changes are pretty interesting.
Deleted member 145219
"Hands off My Medicare," signs coming up?
Of course in OTL I believe it was in the South, you know, Carter's home region, where the polling differences between approval of the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare were first noted.
Well I can't imagine why the Health Care industry would be opposed to the hospital cost containment bill. Jokes aside. Such as proposal makes a lot of sense; Health Care cost are a budget buster and a massive weight on the economy. And its something that's fairly unique to the United States compared to other industrialized nations. And one of Carter's biggest OTL and ATL focuses is containing and ultimately reducing inflation. Should CarterCare pass and succeed, it could really help keep heavy industry competitive in the United States by resolving the issue of Health Care in the US.
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