Definitely. A lot of pop culture from the 80s was either reinforcing or a backlash to the Reagan phenomenon. Creatives from the time period have been very clear about that in retrospect how much the Reagan Revolution affected culture and the arts.
Jimmy Two: America in Carter's Second Term
- Thread starter Vidal
- Start date
Films like Pretty In Pink are probably more popular in the world of Jimmy Two.
Given the close margins of OTL's 1980 Arkansas Governor's Race, I'm extremely surprised the Clinton managed to not pull it out, especially with Carter's coattails. A lot of the 1980 Senate results were extremely close, and the Dems could "pick up" as many as ten seats based on the margins. I especially wonder if a close Indiana, even it it's a loss, keeps Bayh's political drive going; he would be an excellent guy to have around a Carter government if he lost.
It does make me wonder what John Hughes does with his films in the 80s. A lot of his films in OTL are seen as reflections of the Reagan Era, with Jimmy getting a second term. I wonder what kind of films he makes.
It's likely he does more films in the vein of Pretty In Pink and Ferris Bueller rather than Breakfast Club and Sixteen Candles. Considering that feeling of American Malaise continues rather than ITS MORNING AGAIN IN AMERICA ( coughs. )
It's likely he does more films in the vein of Pretty In Pink and Ferris Bueller rather than Breakfast Club and Sixteen Candles. Considering that feeling of American Malaise continues rather than ITS MORNING AGAIN IN AMERICA ( coughs. )
To say nothing of cartoons either! Looking at that big boom of toy-focused cartoons thanks to Reagan's victory and subsequent reform of advertising rules changes the animation industry forever, for ill or for good.
So what a second Carter term means outside the US? The cold war is already getting worse which is likely to continue, the Carter policy of limiting arms exports to the third world still continues, likely good news for Northrop there. Then within the western camp, Carter may be more palatable than Reagan was for some, worse for others. Frex the coming Papandreou government in Greece is likely to have much better relations than it did with Reagan, Papandreou was a former Democrat himself with ties within the party from his Berkeley days while they did not go at all well with Reagan. Then you have things like the Turkish junta, the coup was in September 1980, Reagan p4etty much supported the junta is Carter as supportive? And a bit further down the road does the Argentine junta the US won't mind or back 5hem in the Falkland with Carter in charge? No Falkland war likely means Thatcher is out in 1983 and this in turn quite possibly the first Liberal government since Loyd George and Asquith in Britain...
Vidal
Donor
Unfortunately, it won’t be. I’ve been vacationing with family and need some more time to edit and get things together…
Understand. Hopefully, the delay won't be too long. There will be some time to think certain events of 1981 through.
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Okay, hope you had fun and take your time. Looking forward to when it's ready.
A few years ago, Andrew T did a nice analysis of what Pop Culture could look like a world without a Reagan Presidency:
I think it’s also worth noting that Reaganism isn’t going to go away just because Reagan does. The zeitgeist of the time will no longer be jingoistic, but there will still be a solid core of Americans who are, and who will want that sort of media. I’m imagining a lot of the impulses that went into things like Rambo IOTL being mediated through airport thrillers and direct-to-video movies.
Also worth asking - do we still get media revelling in materialism, just thinly disguised as criticism of it? It’s a time-honored tradition, and the desire to revel in that sort of thing isn’t going to go away just because it’s gauche.
Vidal
Donor
A lot of these I agree with and expand upon below, but I would note that I don't think cigarettes get a free pass through present day just because we miss out on C. Everett Koop. I also think it's worth noting that some of these people will care about these issues anyway -- taking Tipper Gore for instance -- and it's possible that ATL events manifest in a way that she can still channel that belief of hers even if it manifests slightly differently.
Very true. I've done some brain dumping on the Greed is Good concept in American pop culture during the Reagan years. I think you're right that those movies exist but in a way that is more critical of them.
Those who have come to the Villa to get spoilers know that Carter's successor is a Law and Order conservative driven more by drugs, crime, etc. than by abortion and Evangelicalism. To that end, the cultural shift is at the expense of Wall Street traders and to the benefit of cops. This manifests itself in all sorts of ways but is a special boon for Dick Wolf who at this time was bouncing from show to show trying to find someone to take his "Law and Order" pitch seriously.
I think the biggest casualty of no Reagan is the Armageddon Genre as that was rather unique to him being in the Oval Office as opposed to his politics being prevalent.
All in all, the hardest part will be properly showing these changes given the format.
Part of your culture issues was the general feeling of America no longer being 'competitive' with the rest of the world due to the economy and failing infrastructure in the US. The general public saw the US as 'behind' the Soviets both militarily and technologically which drove the war fears and brought out things like "Red Dawn" and in it's own way "The Day After". They also saw a crumbling of society and "law and order" which drove everything from "Dirty Harry" to the over-the-top "American Hero" movies and I'm not sure that's going to go away just because Reagan lost the election.
Nostalgia for the '50s was already a thing given how popular "Happy Days" was.
I'm also going to point out that a follow up "Law and Order" type Republican is likely going to still be steeped in abortion and Evangelicalism as they will likely double-down rather than give up and frankly "cleaning up" the US is going to be even more a priority. (OTL's "War on Drugs" was bad so expect this to be even worse with it being even more ripe for wide spread police and political abuse) More so since it will fit 'nicely' with the growing Satanic Panic movement. Despite Carter being a Democrat the Evangelical Right played up having an "Evangelical" in the White House as much as possible and I see them doing so even more with a second term. Given the usual positioning of the down-ballot your likely looking at a "Red Wave" half way through Carter's second term which will translate into a LOT of pushback on certain issues that Carter is not going to really want to face.
And again socially the US public was primed for being afraid of something during the period and the Evangelicals and alt-Right are going to ride that fear as hard and as far as they can go with it.
Randy
That was always kind of odd imo too lol.
I think the biggest thing here is what the Horror Genre might look like.
Here’s another area I’d be curious about: sci-fi, and in what form cyberpunk may or may not arise ITTL. Since Neuromancer came out in 1984 (and Blade Runner hit theaters before that in 1982), a lot of cyberpunk was predicting a future based off of the trends put in place by Reaganism: neoliberalism, free trade, the privatization of everything, global mega corporations growing more powerful than governments and influencing the world directly, and a vast gap between the rich and poor.
Coupling that with the immediate problems of the time, like drugs and high crime rates, plus the fact that the 1980s saw some of the most rapid development in consumer technology that had been seen in a while, as computers went from being something on the space shuttle to something you bought for your home. I’d be curious how such perspectives are altered in Carterland.
Coupling that with the immediate problems of the time, like drugs and high crime rates, plus the fact that the 1980s saw some of the most rapid development in consumer technology that had been seen in a while, as computers went from being something on the space shuttle to something you bought for your home. I’d be curious how such perspectives are altered in Carterland.
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Here is a link to the pdf of a book on Harold Brown, Carter's Secdef. It is 840-pages long but really only the very late parts on FY 81 and 82 planning really matter here. This might be of interest to figure out Carter's defence policies and butterflies in the TL: https://history.defense.gov/Portals/70/Documents/secretaryofdefense/OSDSeries_Vol9.pdf