Jeff Greenfield wrote a great book about some potential alternate histories and one was about if in 1960 a few weeks after winning the presidency Richard Pavlick who in real life almost killed president-elect Kennedy in a suicide bombing actually decided to go through with it and succeed. But I'm interested in what others think about how the event would change things like civil rights, cuba, the great society etc. How do you guys think an LBJ presidency from 1960-1968 would go?
Wiki page of Richard Pavlick: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Paul_Pavlick
 
I found the story, most of it's in the free sample.
Two issues I question. Why wouldn't Nixon try to question the election?
And I think with all the information the Secret Service had this assassination would be fertile ground for conspiracy theories, but along the "why didn't they stop it" line.

The story also has an interesting point, LBJ is old and his administration would be too. So no passing of the generational torch yet.
 
Why wouldn't Nixon try to question the election?
I would agree with the book here in that Nixon doing that it would not be good for the state of the country and it would be way too politically risky. I think the book did the handling of the transfer of power to LBJ well and realistic
 
Cuba resolved smoothly without getting into near-WWIII territory since it's LBJ in charge and not the reckless jfk.
Hard to tell, is totally possible, that it does not go so hot as OTL, but even with OTL final result under other president can mean, that president looks weak.
The Americans tend to think, that Kennedy won OTL crisis, bit in reality Nikita Khrushchev did get the result, he really needed and wanted - no more American USAF medium distance rockets in Turkey.

Russia has always tended to play multi-turn games, in this case the Cuban crisis is only part of a chain of events. In OTL it all started with the placement of missiles in Turkey, ie under the soft belly of the USSR, ie behind the Black Sea. Khrushchev could not leave it that way, and missiles were placed on Cuba, a bargain chip or reciprocity, which is more pleasant. The situation escalated until Kennedy and Khrushchev agreed to withdraw missiles from both Cuba and Turkey. Kennedy could perform strong only because Khrushchev agreed that that Kennedy would make a speech that seemed strong and he Khrushchev is going to be silent about rockets in Turkey. With any president not as hotheaded as Kennedy it is totally possible, that Khrushchev dictates the speech of POTUS: mea culpa, we started it With Turkey etc; or alternatively, the only speech is from Khrushchev, and in both cases Khrushchev is the strong one and not the Americans.

Therefore Cuba is probably not as hot as OTL, but LBJ gets the reputation, that he is not the man for the next period and his presidency is only from 1960 to 1964.
 
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raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Cuba resolved smoothly without getting into near-WWIII territory since it's LBJ in charge and not the reckless jfk.
I don't think you have any empirical or documentary basis for this.

I think you're saying this mainly to strike an "ornery" or contrarian pose and pick on somebody who gets hero-worshipped by some. It doesn't mean you're a bad person or I don't like you.

That said, I think where we would be on firmer ground would be that LBJ, based on his OTL statements, would be against greenlighting the coup against Ngo Dinh Diem.
 
JFK was unusually hawkish even by the era's standards imo going by his 1960 campaign and how the cuban situation got so close to WWIII.
 

Paradoxer

Banned
Jeff Greenfield wrote a great book about some potential alternate histories and one was about if in 1960 a few weeks after winning the presidency Richard Pavlick who in real life almost killed president-elect Kennedy in a suicide bombing actually decided to go through with it and succeed. But I'm interested in what others think about how the event would change things like civil rights, cuba, the great society etc. How do you guys think an LBJ presidency from 1960-1968 would go?
Wiki page of Richard Pavlick: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Paul_Pavlick
The mafia might be stronger and no Valachi hearing means much of public outside of Italian and Irish community lack knowledge of them. Kennedy and his brother broke down on mob.

If LBJ keeps Cuba from falling to communist or easing over things in place the island could get back in US sphere. If no Castro then mob might get its Vegas in Havana instead(got to admit that be cool those. Vegas in Caribbean).

LBJ likely doesn’t “shake” or worry elements of establishment as much. With exception of Vietnam which he might escalate into even faster most domestic issues while more gradual likely get done more calmly. LBJ policies might take different direction if Kennedy dies earlier and due to different person
 
If LBJ keeps Cuba from falling to communist or easing over things in place the island could get back in US sphere. If no Castro then mob might get its Vegas in Havana instead(got to admit that be cool those. Vegas in Caribbean).
Cuba was already under revolutionary control by 1960 and given Johnson's OTL history in dealing with Communists I doubt he would be able to win Castro back into the US sphere.
 
Cuba was already under revolutionary control by 1960 and given Johnson's OTL history in dealing with Communists I doubt he would be able to win Castro back into the US sphere.
Johnson's view was that every man had his price. He thought Ho Chi Minh could be dealt with like some US Congressman (break out the midnight whiskey and cigars...), not realising that Ho was a completely sincere nationalist/communist.

He might have had better luck with Castro, who in 1959 didn't really have an ideology beyond Land Reform, Kicking out the Mafia, and finding a captive audience for six hour speeches.
 
The first two would be difficult for the CIA to stomach.
I'd like evidence the CIA of 1960-1964 can handle 6 hour speeches comfortably. Their RFA/RE files I've read on '56 indicate that they were incompetent bumpkins in analysis, who regularly had to hire-to-train for languages, and to hire or contract marxist analyses. (I refer to the post '56 sociological studies of Hungarian Emigres getting unusual volumes of Humanities and Social Sciences research money in 57-9 from mysterious private sources.) RFA/RE was entirely unprepared for '56, as in didn't even have emergency files.

Like I'm not saying Team B are better, or more competent. I'm just saying that leading lights of HASS scholarship went elsewhere. Whereas STEM lights looked seriously at NSA as somewhere to do interesting things.

* * *

Doesn't LBJ have a great society to implement in order to resolve social tensions based on a color-line so as to remake anew a color-line but with the talented tenth on the inside? Will LBJ have such a fascination for space phalluses given his remarked upon comfort in his own body? Will LBJ fuck the dog in Laos or Cambodia (where the VWP is active) long before he gets a chance to stuff up Vietnam?

For that matter, what about American boys dying in military accidents defending a small country, thousands of miles away, whose own boys could be defending it itself, Holland?

yours,
Sam R.
 
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