Jews without Israel?

What do you believe the fate of Jews would be if the Arabs somehow managed to pull off a victory in the 1948 war and permanently removed Israel from the map? What would happen to those living in Israel/Palestine after the war; where would they flee too if they're driven from their homes? What would be the status of Zionism; would Jews ever attempt to create another homeland anywhere else on the planet, and if they did, would they meet any success?
 
The US would have asorbed some. Others would have found refuge in assorted locations in Latin America. Several nations there were willing to accept educated hard working immigrants. Others would have been stuck in refugee camps or miserable urban ghettos in Europe of the Middle East & North Africa.
 
If Israel is about to be wiped out, I'd assume the former Allied powers would step in (because it'll look terrible if they allow Holocaust II) - enough to prevent (too much of a) massacre but not enough to save the country. Jews may be allowed to remain in Palestine but 'encouraged' to 'return home' to the west. (That's going to be an ongoing impact on continental Europe) Latin America could be a destination but a lot of Italians and Germans went to Argentina post-war and I bet the Holocaust survivors would really love having to live next to them

What would happen to Arabic Jews is a horrible question - the ones who fled to Israel, what happens to them? Do Arabic Jews still living at home get pressured to leave - and if so, where to? - or does anti-semitism in the Arab world begin to gradually trail off now Israel's gone or do they end up as permanent third-class citizens being used as the "let's all beat THAT guy up" target when a regime wants to bolster itself?

What would be the status of Zionism; would Jews ever attempt to create another homeland anywhere else on the planet, and if they did, would they meet any success?

1948/9 is a time when nobody's going to be creating a homeland of foreign settlers. This is when the empires are in decline and independence movements are on the up (and there's no WW1 - Tom Segev's One Palestine Complete pointed to Britain hoping American Jews would support them as a big reason for the promised homeland). They're stuffed there. Maybe Stalin will further open up the Jewish Autonomous Oblast as a PR move but how many Israeli Jews will want to move to Stalin's USSR?
 
Others would have been stuck in refugee camps or miserable urban ghettos in Europe of the Middle East & North Africa.

That sounds so awfully familiar to what they were facing prior to the Zionist movement. Although I'm sure many would be integrated into their European communities in time, I wonder if anti-Semitism would be 'larger' than it is today simply because Jews would remain a larger community in Europe (unless they immigrate en masse to the Americas). Then again, having being hunted down in the Holocaust, followed by being conceivably massacred and driven out of Palestine would probably make Jews one of the most sympathetic groups of people on Earth.
 
Israeli policies re the Palestinians & non-Jewish Israelis have sparked new anti-semitism in recent decades. If Israel hasn't existed since 1948/9 and it happened back when Europeans still felt colonies were justifiable, you haven't got that and instead you've got two Jewish tragedies and (over time as integration picks up) more people knowing more Jews. It'll be a lot harder to be a European anti-semite.

Unless Stalin does open up the oblast, then it'll be "Jews are COMMIES COMMIES COMMIES" for five decades. (EDIT: More than it was, I mean)
 
I don't see the Jews staying in Europe, the memories of the Holocaust being fresh and raw as they are. Maybe you'd see Jews striking out to South America, or Africa for those who don't want to go to North America.
 
Africa's got the potential to go very badly, depending on which colonies and emerging states they go to. If they're accepted in by colonial governments and support them during any revolutions or war, well...
 
Africa's got the potential to go very badly, depending on which colonies and emerging states they go to. If they're accepted in by colonial governments and support them during any revolutions or war, well...

Yes, but i'm only talking about the remnant that don't go to North America.

Or another choice for settlement could be in Polynesia, I mean that area has had relatively little contact with Jewish people so it might be seen as a place where they can get a clean slate.
 
A large number would probably end up in South Africa, which already has a sizable Jewish population.

This could cause all sorts of butterflies, as a lot of prominent white South Africans are of Jewish origin (Gordimer, Slovo, Suzman, Leon, Zille etc.).
 
Yes, but i'm only talking about the remnant that don't go to North America.

Or another choice for settlement could be in Polynesia, I mean that area has had relatively little contact with Jewish people so it might be seen as a place where they can get a clean slate.

I'd doubt they'd be welcome there in great numbers. Besides of which, the carrying capacity for sudden waves of migrants would be limited. Britain and France wouldn't be keen either, which matters as they control most of it.

I would suspect a lot more would go to SA, Rhodesia, Australia and NZ. Probably still not enough to help a lot
 
Postwar Britain

I'd doubt they'd be welcome there in great numbers. Besides of which, the carrying capacity for sudden waves of migrants would be limited. Britain and France wouldn't be keen either, which matters as they control most of it.

I would suspect a lot more would go to SA, Rhodesia, Australia and NZ. Probably still not enough to help a lot
Wasn't the UK still in the throes of a post-war manpower shortage in 1948?
(There was a British Nationality Act [of parliament] in 1948, to encourage immigration from the Commonwealth, although I don't think that act would apply to Jews fleeing the wreckage of Israel.)
 
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It could do, since Israel had only just left the Commonwealth. In that case we'd get a different history of race relations: there may be less West Indians turning up later on (as there'd be less opportunity) and the tensions, slum lords and race riots we had in the 50s may all happen earlier. Holocaust victims would get sympathy but that wouldn't hold off "they're taking our jobs and they're not from here" forever. (People were dicks to East Europeans after the war who'd been fighting with us)

No Jews, No Dogs, No Irish.
 
What would happen to Arabic Jews is a horrible question - the ones who fled to Israel, what happens to them? Do Arabic Jews still living at home get pressured to leave - and if so, where to? - or does anti-semitism in the Arab world begin to gradually trail off now Israel's gone or do they end up as permanent third-class citizens being used as the "let's all beat THAT guy up" target when a regime wants to bolster itself?

They would not be forced leave and the main reason for them being forced to leave was Israel winning the 1948 war
 
They would not be forced leave and the main reason for them being forced to leave was Israel winning the 1948 war

I doublecheck and I'm wrong - until the war ended, they weren't allowed to leave because it'd give Israel extra numbers. During that time Arabic Jews were being attacked so many wanted to leave. I assume they'll still want out afterwards and that it's going to be a while (and a long one) before they stop getting targeted, and that it's quite possible some states would say "yeah, now fuck off" to make doubly sure of Zionism.
 
Latin America could be a destination but a lot of Italians and Germans went to Argentina post-war and I bet the Holocaust survivors would really love having to live next to them

I don't think the rat trails were "common knowledge" at the time, but Argentina and Brazil were in 2nd and 3rd place when it came to immigration in the first half of the 20th century! So you'd definetly see the Jews go there.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
If the Powers step in, I see Russian Jews being shipped back home and to Birobidzhan. And given how Russia was treating their Jews at this point, infinite misery would follow. That said, Sitka is another candidate, see the Yiddish Policeman's Union. There are a lot of Alternate Israel threads, one of those should give you a clear idea on what would happen.
 
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