Jewish German intellectual contributions without Nazis?

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Deleted member 1487

I was listening to an interview with Ray Kurzweil and noticed when looking at his wikipedia page that his parents had to flee Austria before WW2. I've noticed that for several other accomplished Jewish Americans as well (having ancestors that fled Germany or Austria before WW2 or left after WW2). I've also come across some books that discussed the impact of the Nazi anti-semitic laws and drove out large numbers of doctors and other intellectuals from German speaking lands and I have to wonder what would the 20th century and 21st century have looked like if Jews in German speaking countries of Europe never faced Nazi persecution and either having to flee or died in the Holocaust. What do you think would the German speaking world look like with a vibrant Jewish intellectual life? Would Jews have assimilated more or would they stay a distinct people and offer a different cultural perspective within Germanic society?
 
'Hitler's Scientists' is recommended reading. It is a short outline & analysis of the nazi induced brain drain. Sorry I'm unable to lookup the author right now.
 
Not only the Jewish German intellectual allot of intellectual left Weimar republic as Hitler take power
had history more kindhearted and hitler had died in WW1, things would be quite different german and rest of World.

Like Albert Einstein, John von Neumann and Kurt Gödel would stay in Germany
Or engineer /inventor Gerhard Neumann not improve US jet engine, but German Jet engines aircraft that reach air speeds of Mach 2;

Architect like Walter Gropius and Ludwig Mies van der Rohe would work in Germany
of course they would go to USA and do here and there a commission, but they would not be influential like in 1950s were they stay in USA in OTL
This could influence US architecture not toward Modernism of Gropius, but by Frank Lloyd Wright or Walter Dorwin Teague (Streamline Modern)

Also other Artist would stay in Germany
like Fritz Lang who would make his movies, not under that Hollywood system that tyrannize him during is time in US.
give us more Masters piece of Cinema, we never got to see...
 
and the ones that stayed in germany much longer but got supressed, good example is Lise Meitner
 
Would Jews have assimilated more or would they stay a distinct people and offer a different cultural perspective within Germanic society?

Most Jews in Germany in the early 1930s were almost completely assimilated anyway, which is one of the reasons why the Nazis' institutionalized antisemitism, and the Germans' acceptance of it, was so shocking to them.

As for what it would do to Germany...it's hard to say, as so much depends on what happens to Germany even without the antisemitism, as intellectuals tend to flee totalitarian states anyway (lots of non-Jewish scientists and artists left Germany in the 30s, too, or look to the massive emigration from Russia in the 20s and 30s, and to lesser extents from Spain, Portugal, and Italy as each fell to its own brand of fascism). Plus, when talking art and culture, a lot of non-Jewish artists left Germany as well (due to the general air of oppression, or more likely persecution for "degeneracy", or for the very-common family ties with Jews).

That said, if Germany ends up liberal (or not unbearably totalitarian), we'll see at least 2/3 of the "big name" scientists involved with quantum mechanics stay there. Gottingen never loses its reputation as the place for math, etc. Germany will very likely be the country at the forefront of nuclear science (though ultimately who gets the bomb first may end up being more of a question of industrial output and whose colonies have uranium). Not to mention that it'll probably be even better at industrial chemistry and medicine, say, than it was anyway.

There's almost certainly going to be a vibrant intellectual community in Germany, many of whose members are Jewish, but I'm not sure there'll necessarily be a separate Jewish intellectual sphere, simply because the Jewish intellectuals in Germany really were well-assimilated for the most part. Who knows, though? There could be a Jewish revivalist movement or some-such similar thing.
 
I was listening to an interview with Ray Kurzweil and noticed when looking at his wikipedia page that his parents had to flee Austria before WW2. I've noticed that for several other accomplished Jewish Americans as well (having ancestors that fled Germany or Austria before WW2 or left after WW2). I've also come across some books that discussed the impact of the Nazi anti-semitic laws and drove out large numbers of doctors and other intellectuals from German speaking lands and I have to wonder what would the 20th century and 21st century have looked like if Jews in German speaking countries of Europe never faced Nazi persecution and either having to flee or died in the Holocaust. What do you think would the German speaking world look like with a vibrant Jewish intellectual life?

With all respect to the enormous contributions made by Jews, I think that this effect would be dwarfed by the moral effect of no WW II or no Holocaust. Let's say it's possible for WW II to play out as OTL other than the Holocaust (and the persecution and expulsion of Jews from Germany and Austria).

So Germany is still blasted and battered and condemned for starting the war and other Nazi crimes. But... no Holocaust relieves Germany of a gigantic national disgrace. I recall reading that around 1960, a German lumber company wanted to use the advertising slogan "Holz mit Stolz" ("Wood with pride"); but the idea of German pride was more than they could assert.

Would Jews have assimilated more or would they stay a distinct people and offer a different cultural perspective within Germanic society?

Even before WW II, German Jewry was perhaps the most assimilated in Europe. Nearly all were Reform Jews (if that term applies), not Orthodox, and very few spoke Yiddish.
 
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