Jewish dominated Soviet Union

Anyway you could the Soviet Union dominated by Jews similar to Alawites in Syria

What would a Jewish dominated USSR relationship be with Zionism

what would be the impact on antisemitism
 
Anyway you could the Soviet Union dominated by Jews similar to Alawites in Syria

What would a Jewish dominated USSR relationship be with Zionism

what would be the impact on antisemitism
If this were to somehow happen, it legitimizes Hitler even moreso as well as the Articles of Zion with the Jews having overtaken an entire nation and placing themselves in solid control of a despotic state that owns all threatening the globe with "revolution." Such a state would reinforce antisemitism throughout Europe. It likely taints Communism in Europe.

Unless it goes socialist rather than communist, watch out. And a minority in charge of the majority never ends well.
 
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Insider

Banned
Actually that would give Hitler all legitimacy he needs. If he still manages to lose the war, my homeland becomes a land of constant low level partisan warfare, and most likely, parts of Europe USSR occupies as well.
 
How would that change anything regarding antisemitism and antisemitic movements, since everyone like them who was "in the know" already "knew" the Soviet Union was dominated by Jews for the purpose of furthering Jewish Bolshevism.
 
I may be wrong but I thought Jews were well represented in the russian communist party, presumably because as a group they were better educated. Officially atheist and race neutral I don't think they could form a group that would dominate the communist party even if enough of them wanted to.
What would such an individual gain?

A jewish dominated SU would thus simply be the SU with many leaders of jewish ancestry. Obviously anti-zionist but no more vulnerable to communist/jewish/lizards from inner space fantasy than in OTL.
 
How would that change anything regarding antisemitism and antisemitic movements, since everyone like them who was "in the know" already "knew" the Soviet Union was dominated by Jews for the purpose of furthering Jewish Bolshevism.

People might be more willing to listen to the bigots, making the bigots stronger.
 
People might be more willing to listen to the bigots, making the bigots stronger.
That was exactly what Hitler played on with the attempted communist revolutions following the first world war as a large percentage of the leaders were Jewish. It's not hard for bigots to twist facts to terrify and manipulate people, especially with the Protocols of Zion floating about.
 

Loghain

Banned
That was exactly what Hitler played on with the attempted communist revolutions following the first world war as a large percentage of the leaders were Jewish. It's not hard for bigots to twist facts to terrify and manipulate people, especially with the Protocols of Zion floating about.

Yep and this time he will actually have something he can use as "Proof". Suddenly his theories will sound to many people as "Eccentric but he does have point"
This is very bad. If you somehow bump hitler out as well after the war begins and Put someone like Goring in charge there is no way Nazi lose this. Only Massive Fuckery that Only Hitler and Himmlerwere dumb enough to do before victory(the rest of the Genocide rather Than Puppet states faction like Heydrich would be smart enough to wait with the genocide until they won)
 
Anyway you could the Soviet Union dominated by Jews similar to Alawites in Syria

That's closer to a political group using religion as the underlying social network. Religion itself isn't that important short of "we look after the minorities, so support us."


What would a Jewish dominated USSR relationship be with Zionism

Very bad, as in I doubt the Soviets would tolerate any challenges to its power. Religion is the opium of the people, remember?


what would be the impact on antisemitism

Don't even want to think about this.....
 
legitimizes Hitler even moreso

that would give Hitler all legitimacy he needs

Nope. Stop it. Jewish dominated USSR doesn't add any legitimacy to a 'Jews are bad' argument, even if that Jewish regime was as bad as it could be, and in peculiarly Jewish ways.

Very bad, as in I doubt the Soviets would tolerate any challenges to its power. Religion is the opium of the people, remember?

Or we get a Palestine SSR. If this USSR is still on the winning team in WWII, or maybe even through involvement in the League of Nations.
 
My question is how long do the Russian people accept the Jewish minority holding complete power. It won't end well, especially with Russia's history of pogroms and the west looking for ways to undermine the regime.
 
That would still be "bad" for Zionism.

Possibly. I think there could be a 'good' end for that one. Local and migrant Jews and Muslims united against the Soviet Union's occupation could lead to a lasting alliance that provides the basis for an independent state down the line.

The person who is in the worst place in this system is the apolitical Jew in Russia. If they can make it to Israel, or if they join the Party, or if they escape to the West, their lives would improve, but in each case there would be massive drawbacks, simmering civil war, the paranoia of bureaucracy in a totalitarian system, and increased and open antisemitism, respectively.
 

RousseauX

Donor
I may be wrong but I thought Jews were well represented in the russian communist party, presumably because as a group they were better educated. Officially atheist and race neutral I don't think they could form a group that would dominate the communist party even if enough of them wanted to.
What would such an individual gain?

A jewish dominated SU would thus simply be the SU with many leaders of jewish ancestry. Obviously anti-zionist but no more vulnerable to communist/jewish/lizards from inner space fantasy than in OTL.
This was true until the mid 1920s because Stalin recruited lots and lots of non-Jews into the party apparatus, by the 1930s Jewish membership in the party was way lower than the proportion it had being in 1917
 

Insider

Banned
Nope. Stop it. Jewish dominated USSR doesn't add any legitimacy to a 'Jews are bad' argument, even if that Jewish regime was as bad as it could be, and in peculiarly Jewish ways.
Well, i see your point. While Alawite regime from OP isn't overly found of human rights, its atrocities do not reach nowhere near those that leaders of USSR devised IOTL to terrorize its population. It can be that under other regime we would see Soviet Russia as still oppresive but with no Great Purge, or Ukraine famine.
That would make Nazis look even worse in comparison, and make their claims look even more ridiculous.
 
This was true until the mid 1920s because Stalin recruited lots and lots of non-Jews into the party apparatus, by the 1930s Jewish membership in the party was way lower than the proportion it had being in 1917
Thank you. My fact of the day.
 
Anyway you could the Soviet Union dominated by Jews similar to Alawites in Syria

What would a Jewish dominated USSR relationship be with Zionism

what would be the impact on antisemitism

Where the analogy with Alawites breaks down is that the Jews who had leading positions in the CPSU were "non-Jewish Jews." By that I don't merely mean that they rejected Judaism as a religion (along with all other religions) but that they felt no nationalistic or cultural affinity with their fellow Jews. (They rejected both Zionism *and* the Bund's call for Jewish "cultural autonomy" within the USSR). Quite frequently they would indulge in anti-Semitic stereotypes: "Mendelssohn and Rothschild were for the constitution; the laws of the stock exchange, like those of Moses, forbid the consumption of fresh blood." https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1907/1905/ch11.htm There is no reason to think their policies would be more favorable to Soviet Jews than Stalin's were--in fact, some of them wanted an earlier assault on the "Nepmen" (traders)--who were disproportionately Jewish.

Of course this wouldn't matter to anti-semites. But for all their "internationalism" the leading Jewish Bolsheviks were well aware that anti-semitism was still prevalent in Russia, and would go out of their way to see that the top positions did not go too disproportionately to Jews. (And this leaving aside the fact that the leading Jewish Bolsheviks were hardly universally friendly with each other--Kaganovich was a Stalinist, Zinoviev and Kamenev were very hostile to Trotsky until 1926 when their reconciliation was basically a product of despair.)

This doesn't mean that Jews wouldn't be disproportionately represented in the bureaucracy. But that was true in OTL as well! And Trotsky explained why: "The Soviet regime, in actuality, initiated a series of new phenomena which, because of the poverty and low cultural level of the population, were capable of generating anew, and did in fact generate, anti-Semitic moods. The Jews are a typical city population. They comprise a considerable percentage of the city population in the Ukraine, in White Russia and even in Great Russia. The Soviet, more than any other regime in the world, needs a very great number of civil servants. Civil servants are recruited from the more cultured city population. Naturally the Jews occupied a disproportionately large place among the bureaucracy and particularly so in the lower and middle levels. Of course we can close our eyes to that fact and limit ourselves to vague generalities about the equality and brotherhood of all races. But an ostrich policy will not advance us a single step. The hatred of the peasants and the workers for the bureaucracy is a fundamental fact of Soviet life. The despotism of the regime, the persecution of every critic, the stifling of every living thought, finally the judicial frame-ups are merely a reflection of this basic fact. Even by a priori reasoning it is impossible not to conclude that the hatred for the bureaucracy would assume an anti-Semitic color, at least in those places where the Jewish functionaries compose a significant percentage of the population and are thrown into relief against a broad background of the peasant masses." https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1937/02/therm.htm Of course this same hatred would exist against a bureaucracy headed by Trotsky himself (or Zinoviev) with the fact that the top man was Jewish simply adding to it. The long-term solution for Trotsky or Zinoviev as well as Stalin would be to train Slavs so they could eventually take over the positions that at first were held by Jews.
 
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wikipipes

Banned
I find this thread rather disturbing, as a New Zealander with well recorded Jewish-Scot roots. Remember that Jews were persecuted after the war by Stalin with the same absurdity of that of Hitler. With a personality of Stalin, including his extraordinary paranoia and hypertension I would assume any revelations about Jews within the Communist Party would elicit immediate suspicion, and probably a purge. Antisemitism was a commonly held view since the pogroms.
 
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