Max Sinister
Banned
Horsemeat isn't kosher, right? And AFAIK the Mongols also drank blood of their horses.
Jewish China
- Thread starter richie42
- Start date
HueyLong
Banned
I don't think they ate horsemeat. Drinking blood though, is correct.
They did not drink mare's milk straight- they were lactose intolerant. They made a wine (technically, because the alcohol is from sugar and not starch) from it and drank that. Kumiss, I believe.
As for cheese with meat, it would not be that hard to keep the two separate and would have some hygiene issues resolved (Meat juices could soak in the cheese and remain uncooked, as occurs in some dishes even today.)
They did not drink mare's milk straight- they were lactose intolerant. They made a wine (technically, because the alcohol is from sugar and not starch) from it and drank that. Kumiss, I believe.
As for cheese with meat, it would not be that hard to keep the two separate and would have some hygiene issues resolved (Meat juices could soak in the cheese and remain uncooked, as occurs in some dishes even today.)
Here's the start of a 2.0 version of this timeline I started a while back.
~~~~~
The following was directly inspired by the Judith Tarr short story Measureless to Man from Harry Turtledove's Alternate Generals III, which had the Mongols convert to Judaism and spread their new faith far and wide.
~~~~~
POD: c. 1142:
The girl who will one day be known as "the Honored Deborah" in Eastern Jewish mythology is born to a family of Jewish merchants in Bukhara, in the Kara-Khanid Khanate.
No known images exist of her, though various documents dating back to the reign of Judah Khan himself offer many flattering descriptions in their own right.
c.1143-1160:
It is thought by modern historians that Deborah somehow receives a detailed instruction on the history and rituals of the Jewish people from a relative, possibly her father. What is known (from records in Chengdu and Karakorum), is that in the year 1160 (by the calendars of Christendom), Deborah is taken by Qarluq slavers while on a journey with her family on the Silk Road and brutally raped in the process, to the point where she was, “left as bereft as the Taklamakan and as vengeful as a winter storm” (to quote the 1230 document The Secret History of the Mongols). It has been speculated by historians in Nanjing and Kaifeng that this is when she swears revenge on the Qarluq.
1144:
The first recorded Blood Libel occurs in Norwich, England, after a young Christian boy, Julian, disappears. The Jews are falsely accused of using his blood for their Passover matzoth.
1147-1148:
The Second Crusade is waged.
c.1162:
Temujin, the boy who will one day strike terror into the world around him as Judah, Ghengis Khan, is born to Yesugei, the leader of Kiyad, in Mongolia, and a vassal of Ong Khan of the Kerait tribe, of the Borjigin Clan.
c.1161-1170:
Deborah is sold to a plethora of masters, before finally becoming the property of Dei Seichen of the Onggirat tribe in 1170. He also happens to be the father of Borte, the future wife of Temujin.
c. 1170 onwards:
For his part, Dei Seichen treats Deborah with indifference when it comes to her religion, allowing her to practice it openly.
One of her main tasks is to look after young Borte. For her part, Borte becomes curious about Deborah’s strange religion. Seeing how Borte is betrothed the son of a local chief, Deborah takes the opportunity to tell her the story of her people and the enduring strength of her people’s Covenant with the Lord G-d. She tells Borte many stories from the Five Books of Moses during this time as well.
Borte is very intrigued, especially after Deborah tells her how Judaism, despite suffering under tyrannies and great empires ranging from Babylon to Rome, has survived long past their fall.
It’s unknown precisely when Borte declared her conversion to Judaism. Regardless, as various historians have established, she was already practicing her interpretation of the rituals Deborah passed to her by the time of her marriage to Temujin. Records indicate that Deborah had passed away by this time (from an unknown cause).
While all this is going on, Temujin becomes estranged from his tribe and is abandoned with his family to the wilderness, eking out a living on the steppe.
1170:
Roger of Salerno writes the first European textbook on surgery—Practica Chirurgiae.
1174:
Saladin takes Damascus.
Wooden printing blocks are invented in Switzerland.
1180:
The first rockets are invented in China.
c.1182:
Temujin is enslaved by his former tribe; he eventually manages to escape with a sympathetic guard who will later father his general, Chilaun.
The Jews are first expelled from France by King Philip Augustus.
c.1188-1200:
As previously arranged by his father, Temujin marries Borte. Borte tries to tell him of the power of the “Lord of the Skies and Earth,” but he scoffs at this strange philosophy that she’s apparently trying to teach him. Borte merely tells him that the Lord will lead him to his destiny by any means necessary, as The Secret History of the Mongols tells us.
c. 1190:
Temujin forges a small confederation from his supporters and his family of Mongols.
Also, on March 16 of that same year, a massacre of Jews occurs in York, England. Another anti-Semitic massacre occurs in Bury St. Edmonds not long afterward.
1192:
Qutb-ud-Din Aybak is installed as the first Muslim ruler of India by Mohammed of Ghur, after the successful taking of Dehli.
1193:
The death of Saladin in Damascus causes a civil war to erupt amongst his heirs.
1197:
In India, the Arabs destroy the celebrated Buddhist monastery of Nalanda.
1198:
Ibn Rushd, the great Muslim scientist and philosopher, passes away in Marrakesh at the age of 78.
c.1200:
Borte is kidnapped in a raid by the Merkit tribe. In sheer desperation afterwards, Temujin prays to Borte’s “Lord of the Skies and Earth” for his rescue attempt to be successful, and for her to be safe.
With aid from his friend (and future rival) Jamuqa and Ong Khan, along with 20,000 Kerait warriors from his father's blood brother Toghrul, Temujin rescues Borte and destroys the kidnappers. On the way to rescue her, Temujin later tells Borte, he had a fitful dream in which a “Mighty Spirit” told him that his prayer had been successful and his attempt would succeed (though modern day scholars stress that he was under a great deal of duress at the time, and therefore it would be expectant for him to have such a dream; naturally the faithful today refuse to even comprehend such a thought).
Borte tells him that it was the Lord G-d speaking to him. Then, she tells him that she knew all along his attempt would succeed, as the Lord provides for those under his Covenant.
This is all that’s needed to convince Temujin; he declares his conversion to serve the “Lord of the Skies and Earth” until the day he passes on.
Temujin manages to convert Ong Khan to this new religion, along with his brothers—Khaser, Khajiun, and Temuge—his mother Hoelun, his sister Temulin, and his half brothers Bekhter and Belgutei, along with the bulk of the Kerait tribe and the Borjigin Clan. Jamuqa, however, refuses to convert, causing a rift between the two former friends that will never be healed, ending their Blood Brotherhood.
Temujin ensures that his followers to convert to his new religion by ensuring that his tale of the "miracle" spreads far and wide. It’s during this time that the Yassa Code (whose variations govern much of the East to this day) comes into being for the first time. It’s likely that Borte had a heavy hand in their design, as it incorporates what she remembers of the Ten Commandments into the Code.
Borte has by now, according to The Secret History of the Mongols informed her husband of the existence of the original “People of the Covenant” to the west. Temujin vows to one day find these communities and bring them under his protection.
But first he has to deal with Jamuqa, who has now become Gur Khan (universal ruler) in his own right, a direct challenge to his authority. Combined with his defiance of Temujin’s efforts to spread Judaism, he raises the ire of the young ruler.
Although he defeats Temujin in several battles, Jamuqa makes the fatal mistake of encouraging ethnic divisions in his forces, while Temujin uses every opportunity to unify his forces by allowing promotion based on merit and spreading the faith in the Lord of Hosts. Combined with aid from Toghrul—[who unlike IOTL does not side with Jamuqa, as he’s more influenced by Temujin’s new faith even than his own son]—it doesn’t take long before Jamuqa is captured and executed by Temujin, having spurned one last offer of forgiveness (and conversion).
In South America, the city of Cuzco is founded by Inca leader Manco Capac.
1202:
The Mongols crush the Tartars, forcing them to convert to Judaism.
In France, the fiefs of King John of England within in the Kingdom of France—in Aquitaine, Poitou, and Anjou—are confiscated by King Philip, who grants the land to his nephew, John of Brittany.
In Italy, Leonardo Fibonacci publishes Liber Abaci, which revolutionizes the teaching of mathematics; it details the usage of fractions, percentages, different methods of calculating prices.
1204:
During their sack of Constantinople, the Crusaders destroy the Jewish Quarter of the Byzantine capital.
Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon, better known in Europe as Maimonides, passes away in Cairo at the age of 69. He’s most famous for his Letter of the Jews of Yemen—in which he stressed that forced conversion outside the faith was not sinful if loyalty to Israel was maintained—the Mishneh Torah, a summary of Jewish law and rituals, and his Guide to the Perplexed. All of his works will later be translated in Karakorum, Bukhara, Samarqand, and Kaifeng by the Rabbis of those cities and their scribes.
The first synagogue is built in Vienna; it will later be destroyed when news reaches the city of the Mongol taking of Jerusalem.
Pope Innocent III dispatches Abbot Armand Amalric of Citeaux and Peter of Castelnau to wipe out the heretic Cathars of Languedoc.
The first sawmill is built in France.
1205:
By this time, Temujin has brought the formerly various Keraits, Uyghurs, Merkits, Naimans, and Mongols under his control, ensured the diffusion of Judaism amongst them, and having vanquished his rival Jamuqa, declares that he has taken the name new name Judah (after the son of Jacob), and the new title Warrior of the One G-d. He declares to his soldiers that G-d has taken them into His Covenant, and that it is the duty, as soldiers of the Lord of Hosts, to conquer the world and bring it into the Covenant. The Mongol Empire is born...
~~~~~
Comments?
~~~~~
The following was directly inspired by the Judith Tarr short story Measureless to Man from Harry Turtledove's Alternate Generals III, which had the Mongols convert to Judaism and spread their new faith far and wide.
~~~~~
POD: c. 1142:
The girl who will one day be known as "the Honored Deborah" in Eastern Jewish mythology is born to a family of Jewish merchants in Bukhara, in the Kara-Khanid Khanate.
No known images exist of her, though various documents dating back to the reign of Judah Khan himself offer many flattering descriptions in their own right.
c.1143-1160:
It is thought by modern historians that Deborah somehow receives a detailed instruction on the history and rituals of the Jewish people from a relative, possibly her father. What is known (from records in Chengdu and Karakorum), is that in the year 1160 (by the calendars of Christendom), Deborah is taken by Qarluq slavers while on a journey with her family on the Silk Road and brutally raped in the process, to the point where she was, “left as bereft as the Taklamakan and as vengeful as a winter storm” (to quote the 1230 document The Secret History of the Mongols). It has been speculated by historians in Nanjing and Kaifeng that this is when she swears revenge on the Qarluq.
1144:
The first recorded Blood Libel occurs in Norwich, England, after a young Christian boy, Julian, disappears. The Jews are falsely accused of using his blood for their Passover matzoth.
1147-1148:
The Second Crusade is waged.
c.1162:
Temujin, the boy who will one day strike terror into the world around him as Judah, Ghengis Khan, is born to Yesugei, the leader of Kiyad, in Mongolia, and a vassal of Ong Khan of the Kerait tribe, of the Borjigin Clan.
c.1161-1170:
Deborah is sold to a plethora of masters, before finally becoming the property of Dei Seichen of the Onggirat tribe in 1170. He also happens to be the father of Borte, the future wife of Temujin.
c. 1170 onwards:
For his part, Dei Seichen treats Deborah with indifference when it comes to her religion, allowing her to practice it openly.
One of her main tasks is to look after young Borte. For her part, Borte becomes curious about Deborah’s strange religion. Seeing how Borte is betrothed the son of a local chief, Deborah takes the opportunity to tell her the story of her people and the enduring strength of her people’s Covenant with the Lord G-d. She tells Borte many stories from the Five Books of Moses during this time as well.
Borte is very intrigued, especially after Deborah tells her how Judaism, despite suffering under tyrannies and great empires ranging from Babylon to Rome, has survived long past their fall.
It’s unknown precisely when Borte declared her conversion to Judaism. Regardless, as various historians have established, she was already practicing her interpretation of the rituals Deborah passed to her by the time of her marriage to Temujin. Records indicate that Deborah had passed away by this time (from an unknown cause).
While all this is going on, Temujin becomes estranged from his tribe and is abandoned with his family to the wilderness, eking out a living on the steppe.
1170:
Roger of Salerno writes the first European textbook on surgery—Practica Chirurgiae.
1174:
Saladin takes Damascus.
Wooden printing blocks are invented in Switzerland.
1180:
The first rockets are invented in China.
c.1182:
Temujin is enslaved by his former tribe; he eventually manages to escape with a sympathetic guard who will later father his general, Chilaun.
The Jews are first expelled from France by King Philip Augustus.
c.1188-1200:
As previously arranged by his father, Temujin marries Borte. Borte tries to tell him of the power of the “Lord of the Skies and Earth,” but he scoffs at this strange philosophy that she’s apparently trying to teach him. Borte merely tells him that the Lord will lead him to his destiny by any means necessary, as The Secret History of the Mongols tells us.
c. 1190:
Temujin forges a small confederation from his supporters and his family of Mongols.
Also, on March 16 of that same year, a massacre of Jews occurs in York, England. Another anti-Semitic massacre occurs in Bury St. Edmonds not long afterward.
1192:
Qutb-ud-Din Aybak is installed as the first Muslim ruler of India by Mohammed of Ghur, after the successful taking of Dehli.
1193:
The death of Saladin in Damascus causes a civil war to erupt amongst his heirs.
1197:
In India, the Arabs destroy the celebrated Buddhist monastery of Nalanda.
1198:
Ibn Rushd, the great Muslim scientist and philosopher, passes away in Marrakesh at the age of 78.
c.1200:
Borte is kidnapped in a raid by the Merkit tribe. In sheer desperation afterwards, Temujin prays to Borte’s “Lord of the Skies and Earth” for his rescue attempt to be successful, and for her to be safe.
With aid from his friend (and future rival) Jamuqa and Ong Khan, along with 20,000 Kerait warriors from his father's blood brother Toghrul, Temujin rescues Borte and destroys the kidnappers. On the way to rescue her, Temujin later tells Borte, he had a fitful dream in which a “Mighty Spirit” told him that his prayer had been successful and his attempt would succeed (though modern day scholars stress that he was under a great deal of duress at the time, and therefore it would be expectant for him to have such a dream; naturally the faithful today refuse to even comprehend such a thought).
Borte tells him that it was the Lord G-d speaking to him. Then, she tells him that she knew all along his attempt would succeed, as the Lord provides for those under his Covenant.
This is all that’s needed to convince Temujin; he declares his conversion to serve the “Lord of the Skies and Earth” until the day he passes on.
Temujin manages to convert Ong Khan to this new religion, along with his brothers—Khaser, Khajiun, and Temuge—his mother Hoelun, his sister Temulin, and his half brothers Bekhter and Belgutei, along with the bulk of the Kerait tribe and the Borjigin Clan. Jamuqa, however, refuses to convert, causing a rift between the two former friends that will never be healed, ending their Blood Brotherhood.
Temujin ensures that his followers to convert to his new religion by ensuring that his tale of the "miracle" spreads far and wide. It’s during this time that the Yassa Code (whose variations govern much of the East to this day) comes into being for the first time. It’s likely that Borte had a heavy hand in their design, as it incorporates what she remembers of the Ten Commandments into the Code.
Borte has by now, according to The Secret History of the Mongols informed her husband of the existence of the original “People of the Covenant” to the west. Temujin vows to one day find these communities and bring them under his protection.
But first he has to deal with Jamuqa, who has now become Gur Khan (universal ruler) in his own right, a direct challenge to his authority. Combined with his defiance of Temujin’s efforts to spread Judaism, he raises the ire of the young ruler.
Although he defeats Temujin in several battles, Jamuqa makes the fatal mistake of encouraging ethnic divisions in his forces, while Temujin uses every opportunity to unify his forces by allowing promotion based on merit and spreading the faith in the Lord of Hosts. Combined with aid from Toghrul—[who unlike IOTL does not side with Jamuqa, as he’s more influenced by Temujin’s new faith even than his own son]—it doesn’t take long before Jamuqa is captured and executed by Temujin, having spurned one last offer of forgiveness (and conversion).
In South America, the city of Cuzco is founded by Inca leader Manco Capac.
1202:
The Mongols crush the Tartars, forcing them to convert to Judaism.
In France, the fiefs of King John of England within in the Kingdom of France—in Aquitaine, Poitou, and Anjou—are confiscated by King Philip, who grants the land to his nephew, John of Brittany.
In Italy, Leonardo Fibonacci publishes Liber Abaci, which revolutionizes the teaching of mathematics; it details the usage of fractions, percentages, different methods of calculating prices.
1204:
During their sack of Constantinople, the Crusaders destroy the Jewish Quarter of the Byzantine capital.
Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon, better known in Europe as Maimonides, passes away in Cairo at the age of 69. He’s most famous for his Letter of the Jews of Yemen—in which he stressed that forced conversion outside the faith was not sinful if loyalty to Israel was maintained—the Mishneh Torah, a summary of Jewish law and rituals, and his Guide to the Perplexed. All of his works will later be translated in Karakorum, Bukhara, Samarqand, and Kaifeng by the Rabbis of those cities and their scribes.
The first synagogue is built in Vienna; it will later be destroyed when news reaches the city of the Mongol taking of Jerusalem.
Pope Innocent III dispatches Abbot Armand Amalric of Citeaux and Peter of Castelnau to wipe out the heretic Cathars of Languedoc.
The first sawmill is built in France.
1205:
By this time, Temujin has brought the formerly various Keraits, Uyghurs, Merkits, Naimans, and Mongols under his control, ensured the diffusion of Judaism amongst them, and having vanquished his rival Jamuqa, declares that he has taken the name new name Judah (after the son of Jacob), and the new title Warrior of the One G-d. He declares to his soldiers that G-d has taken them into His Covenant, and that it is the duty, as soldiers of the Lord of Hosts, to conquer the world and bring it into the Covenant. The Mongol Empire is born...
~~~~~
Comments?
CanadianGoose
Banned
Awesome, just bloody awesome. Will we see Jewish Russia too? Would be pretty interesting, as it will mean 3-directional Slavic religious split: Roman Catholics (Poles, Czech, Croats, Slovaks, Slovenes), Orthodox (modern-day Ukraine, Belarus and Novgorod North, not directly affected by OTL Mongol invasion), Jewish (OTL Russians).
Several comments:
- I don't see an inseparable barrier between circumcision and "warrior nation" state of mind. Adult (or juvenile) circumcision could be interpreted as sign of bravery, readiness to tolerate the pain while serving Allmighty. I wonder, wouldn't Deboreans adopt circumcision as part of Bar Mitzvah ritual? Young warrior showing his manliness...
- Pork and horsemeat. There's a Jewish legend that swine used to be kosher (it does have cloven hoofs, but it does not ruminate), but it did offend Allmighty somehow and He took ability to ruminate from it. I wonder, with supernatural kharizma of the Judah Han and dire necessity for his taxpaying Chinese subjects to consume pork and for his victorious Mongol hosts to consume horsemeat and mare's milk (essential part of their diet), wouldn't he be able to convince some less rigid Rabbi that this dietary rules are to be amended? Remember, that Judaism used to be pretty ingenious in interpreting rules up to and including Talmudic times, which is less than 3 centuries pre-POD. We owe much of today's rigidity to Ashkenazi rabbis of the late Medieval times.
- Meat, dairy and other dietary requirements. There's not many recipes in OTL Central Asian cookbooks mixing meat and dairy products, and Chinese don't consume lots of dairy products to a present day. So no problem here. You need to do something about the game (important part of Mongolian diet, but utterly non-kosher). Should be pretty easy though.
Several comments:
- I don't see an inseparable barrier between circumcision and "warrior nation" state of mind. Adult (or juvenile) circumcision could be interpreted as sign of bravery, readiness to tolerate the pain while serving Allmighty. I wonder, wouldn't Deboreans adopt circumcision as part of Bar Mitzvah ritual? Young warrior showing his manliness...
- Pork and horsemeat. There's a Jewish legend that swine used to be kosher (it does have cloven hoofs, but it does not ruminate), but it did offend Allmighty somehow and He took ability to ruminate from it. I wonder, with supernatural kharizma of the Judah Han and dire necessity for his taxpaying Chinese subjects to consume pork and for his victorious Mongol hosts to consume horsemeat and mare's milk (essential part of their diet), wouldn't he be able to convince some less rigid Rabbi that this dietary rules are to be amended? Remember, that Judaism used to be pretty ingenious in interpreting rules up to and including Talmudic times, which is less than 3 centuries pre-POD. We owe much of today's rigidity to Ashkenazi rabbis of the late Medieval times.
- Meat, dairy and other dietary requirements. There's not many recipes in OTL Central Asian cookbooks mixing meat and dairy products, and Chinese don't consume lots of dairy products to a present day. So no problem here. You need to do something about the game (important part of Mongolian diet, but utterly non-kosher). Should be pretty easy though.
CanadianGoose
Banned
Hello David,
I'd like to suggest some possibilities you may want to use/explore in your timeline:
- Karaims and Khazar converts. I'm not sure they're the one and same, but it does not important for this TL. Enough to say that huge powerful Kaganate with Jewish elite ruled Volga basin and much of plains between Ural and Bug rivers just two hundred years ago and there's still many remnants of this population hanging around Lower Volga (if my memory serves me well, Khazars still owned several scattered towns and small princedoms in region as late as 1170s). Deboreans and those people would likely be interested in each other and this can affect directions and timing of Mongols' westward expansion.
- Once contacts between Deboreans and "Old Jewry" are established and fences are somewhat lowered, there are many things Old Jewry has which are of use to Mongols. Knowledge is one of them. Jewish communities are probably the best information-gathering and analytic network world had at this time. Being heavily involved in international trade and not protected by co-religionist states, Jews recognized value of information very early. Internal political situation of separate states, relationships between states and alliances, caravan routes, logistic capabilities of certain regions, that sort of things. And Mongols are the ones who can recognize value of this information on the spot. This sort of co-operation will make Jewish communities targets of very hostile attention from host nations, but I think that is of lesser importance, as mere birth of Jewish Empire is enough to turn local Jews from tolerated outsiders to hostile aliens in the eyes of local gentile regimes, even if said Jews are wholeheartedly collaborating with local regime.
- Seafaring. Jews weren't Sea Peoples, but their involvement in trade made them very aware of advantages of seafaring (even more aware of rivers' capabilities as supply roots). And Mongols got access to Caspian sea and Volga after subjugating Khwarezm. Their continued Westward push will bring Mongols to the Black Sea and Danube. It may be interesting what will come of that.
- Military knowledge. As weird as it sounds, Sephards of the era possessed sufficient military knowledge, serving in both Muslim and Christian armies. Their forte were seiges and defence of fortresses, area which can be interested to Mongols (even taking into account dragooned Chinese engineers).
I'd like to suggest some possibilities you may want to use/explore in your timeline:
- Karaims and Khazar converts. I'm not sure they're the one and same, but it does not important for this TL. Enough to say that huge powerful Kaganate with Jewish elite ruled Volga basin and much of plains between Ural and Bug rivers just two hundred years ago and there's still many remnants of this population hanging around Lower Volga (if my memory serves me well, Khazars still owned several scattered towns and small princedoms in region as late as 1170s). Deboreans and those people would likely be interested in each other and this can affect directions and timing of Mongols' westward expansion.
- Once contacts between Deboreans and "Old Jewry" are established and fences are somewhat lowered, there are many things Old Jewry has which are of use to Mongols. Knowledge is one of them. Jewish communities are probably the best information-gathering and analytic network world had at this time. Being heavily involved in international trade and not protected by co-religionist states, Jews recognized value of information very early. Internal political situation of separate states, relationships between states and alliances, caravan routes, logistic capabilities of certain regions, that sort of things. And Mongols are the ones who can recognize value of this information on the spot. This sort of co-operation will make Jewish communities targets of very hostile attention from host nations, but I think that is of lesser importance, as mere birth of Jewish Empire is enough to turn local Jews from tolerated outsiders to hostile aliens in the eyes of local gentile regimes, even if said Jews are wholeheartedly collaborating with local regime.
- Seafaring. Jews weren't Sea Peoples, but their involvement in trade made them very aware of advantages of seafaring (even more aware of rivers' capabilities as supply roots). And Mongols got access to Caspian sea and Volga after subjugating Khwarezm. Their continued Westward push will bring Mongols to the Black Sea and Danube. It may be interesting what will come of that.
- Military knowledge. As weird as it sounds, Sephards of the era possessed sufficient military knowledge, serving in both Muslim and Christian armies. Their forte were seiges and defence of fortresses, area which can be interested to Mongols (even taking into account dragooned Chinese engineers).
Careful... Sepharad means Spain in archaic Hebrew. I know, of course, that in modern times the name can be mistakenly applied to all Eastern Jews, but I think you actually may be talking, in terms of military knowledge and serving for both Christians and Muslims, of Spanish Jews. Bucharian and Persian Jews had and still have an entirely different cultural tradition.
CanadianGoose
Banned
Yeah, I'm aware of distinction between Mizrahim and Sephardim and I meant Sephardim. After all, Spain is just a ship ride from Middle East (area which will undoubtedly attract Deboreans).
Yes, not much of military tradition there. I believe they were not allowed to bear arms at all.