Jewish China

[david3565]

Let's go back to my Kaifung connection.

OTL, there was a rebellion in Canton in 878 where 120,000 Jews, Muslims and Christians were slaughtered. Some of those Jews were able to resettle and form and community in Kaifung. In this ATL, for the most part, those Jews survive and also resettle in Kaifung, creating a much larger community.

Let us say an Ottoman Jew from the Abravanel family follows the old Silk Road trade route to China circa 15th century, in a Marco Polo fashion, perhaps taking a survey for financial purposes. By now the Kaifung community numbers in to the many thousands. Mentioning he is a Jew, he learns of other Jews in China. Bringing back this news, it travels from the Ottoman Empire in to Europe through family and community connections. This contact would be largely unknown to most non-Jews.

This connection continues for a century. Jews in banking are thriving from the direct trade connection and a strong exchange has taken place between the the rabbinic schools in Europe and those in Kaifung. The European Jews have been engaging and critiquing Eastern philosophy, while the Chinese Jews debate Grecco-Roman thought.

In to this mix comes the Karaites, some of whom have immigrated to China to escape the anti-semitism. It is the Karaites that begin more actively expanding outside of the Jewish communities and publicly engaging Chinese thinkers.

Lo and behold, a a Karaite rabbi finds his way in to the court of a minor noble. The noble is deeply impressed and converts to Judaism. Let's say a few years later, with Jewish financial backing and the importation of European weapons, he begins consolidating power in China, first by pushing out the Turks and the Mongols and then slowly consolidating power. It would only be this noble's son who would once again unify China and establish a Jewish emperorship with significant trade ties to Europe and the Ottomans.

 

[NapoleonXIV]

Actually, I think that Confucius and the Talmud would go fairly well together. Both espouse an extremely practical philosophy.

I have some facsimiles of the Torah manuscripts purchased off the Kaifung Jewish community by the Presbyterians in the 19th century. It's amazing to see Hebrew written Chinese style with a brush! These manuscripts are annotated in Mandarin and Judeo-Persian.

Yes exactly, Confucianism is not a religion really but a philosophy and a way of life, which could dovetail very neatly with Judaism as both venerate the family as a primary tenet.

One possibility, (admittedly rather remote) is that Bodhidharma comes across a wandering Jewish rabbi on his trip over the Himalayas and decides to incorporate Hebrew teachings into his own. Zen Judaism, due to its closer resemblance to China's already existing Confucian teachings, becomes the majority religion in China.

 

[david3565]

What ever service resemblences they have, you're not going to be able to incorporate the two. Besides, the challenge is to get Judaism as the majority religion in China, not a mix.

Yes exactly, Confucianism is not a religion really but a philosophy and a way of life, which could dovetail very neatly with Judaism as both venerate the family as a primary tenet.

One possibility, (admittedly rather remote) is that Bodhidharma comes across a wandering Jewish rabbi on his trip over the Himalayas and decides to incorporate Hebrew teachings into his own. Zen Judaism, due to its closer resemblance to China's already existing Confucian teachings, becomes the majority religion in China.

 

[Hendryk]

Whatever the POD, keep in mind that Judaism will have to undergo quite a few changes to become a majority religion in China. For one thing, it would have to tolerate the coexistence of other religions, and the syncretic practices of much of the flock--two things about which the Old Testament has rather unkind things to say (however, I confess my utter lack of expertise on Rabbinic Judaism, which might be more conciliatory). Then there is the problem of pork being the staple meat in Chinese cuisine.

 

[david3565]

Even my knowledge of Judaism is limited, but with a change in PoD, you can end up with either Karaite or Rabbinic Judaism. There are substantial differences between the two; roughly the difference between Catholic and Reformed Christianity.

Judaism could tolerate other religions and foreign aliens in their midst. OT law does acknowledge the presence and interaction with foreigners. It isn't that much of a hurdle. Pork, strangely enough, may be a bigger one. Wonder how expensive cattle imports were from India...

Whatever the POD, keep in mind that Judaism will have to undergo quite a few changes to become a majority religion in China. For one thing, it would have to tolerate the coexistence of other religions, and the syncretic practices of much of the flock--two things about which the Old Testament has rather unkind things to say (however, I confess my utter lack of expertise on Rabbinic Judaism, which might be more conciliatory). Then there is the problem of pork being the staple meat in Chinese cuisine.

 

[DMS]

I'm thinking the challenges rank as

3. Tolerance of other religions
2. Pork.
1. Demographics.

with maybe just a small gap between 2 and 1.

The Tanach (Old Testament to Christians) displays a good deal of intolerance toward Gentiles, but only those blocking the establishment of Israel or failing to follow Jewish law in Israel proper. Even that didn't translate into the historical era. It's certainly possible you could have an intolerant strain of Judaism in China -- there are going to be a lot of modifications.

Rabbinic interpretation saying no pork unless you need it to survive is the easiest route, there. Plenty of those exceptions around, even for the Sabbath, which is a lot more important than the dietary laws.

The demographics hinge on whether it matters if and for how long other Jews don't recognize Chinese Jews as genuine because they didn't all go through a proper conversion process. For the purposes of satisying the challenge, maybe having the majority of Chinese self-identify as Jews should be enough.

 

[Othniel]

There are a few passages in the old testement that pointed out if Isreal wouldn't except it, then it would go to the gentiles. (A favorite of gentile christians.) There was a point in time where you had to be circumcised in order to become a christian. Also, there is anouther point in which Judahism can grow and convert people in China. It only envolves Solomon being able to get in contact with them....ie that would require some type of miracle....but it is one of the better times for Juduisms spread.

 

[NFR]

What ever service resemblences they have, you're not going to be able to incorporate the two. Besides, the challenge is to get Judaism as the majority religion in China, not a mix.

That is not a problem since Confucianism is a government/ personal philosophy, not a religion.

 

[NFR]

I have a really, really odd idea from reading this thread (it's your fault, Dave), so here goes..

1881: Tsar Alexander II assassinated. A Jewish radical, one Gamochov, was blamed for this. Massive pogrom ensued in Russian, and many Russian Jews fled. A sizeable number fled to Russia's new and burgeoning mining and railway concern in Manchuria.
1882: Russian Jews established several communities in Manchuria, building mines and maintaining railways. Several richer families also diversify into lumber and agriculture.
1883: The Jewish commuity in Manchuria, centred around Harbin and Changqun, established Jewish schools for their children.
1885: Desirous to improve relations with the Chinese, who due to various reasons respect or at least fear foreigners (to them Russian Jews are foreingers just as Englishmen), the Jewish schools opened annexes for the Chinese. Noting carefully the missionary schools' failure and resultant resentment caused amongst the Chinese, they refrain from teaching Judaism. However, since many of the teaching staff are devout Jews, some ideas inevitably leaked across.
1887: A young Theodor Herzl, Austrian Jew, purchased a copy of the Atlas of China by Jesuits, commissioned by the Emperor Qianlong of the Manchus. He noted with some interest the city if Xian in western China.
1890: The Russian Jews gained a reputation of being more even-handed than other foreigners in China, principally because Jews were very well aware of importance of good relations with their host country. Jewish communities in Manchuria engaged in more charity work, and unlike their Christian counterparts, did not seek to tie religion into it for practical reasons. Jewish businesses in Mahcuria flourish. Other Eastern European Jews migrate to the foreign concessions in China rather than America.
1894: The Drefus Affair.
1895: Sino-Japanese war ended in complete Japanese victory. Japanese troops committed atrocities in Manchuria. The various Jewish communities protected a number of Chinese in their settlements. Japanese soldiers did not pursue since the Jewish settlements were technically in the Russian sphere of interest.
1896: Theodor Herzl published Der Judenstaat, a chapter on the Chinese city of Zion (Xian) was found therein.
1897: The First Zionist Congress. The Jewish writer and amateur archaeologist Israel Zangwill gave a speech on the ancient pyramid Xian*, sparking some speculation. Jewish migration to China increased into a steady trickle. The Manchu government was happy to leave what they saw as foreingers alone, being fearful of reprisals from the Western countries from which the Jews came.
1899: Boxer Rebellion in China, Jewish communities escaped the worse of it due to their good reputation compared to other foreigners, and the distance of their main settlements from the main areas of Boxer activity
1901: Seven western powers plus Japan suppressed Boxer rebellion in China Peking sacked, Russian troops ransacked a number of Jewish homes along with the Chinese ones. Dowager Empress Cixi fled all the way to Xian, where a Jewish delegation met with her; normally she would refuse audience to foreigners, by that time the dowager Empress was too shellshocked by anything from outside China that she acquiesced. A number of Jewish lawyers accompanied the Chinese delegation to the negotations. Boxer Protocol signed by Dowager Empress Cixi of China, a little less harsh than historical. For this office the Empress granted free passage to all Jews and some land around Xian.
1903: Kishinev pogroms, more Jews fled; some to Manchuria, and a number to Xian.
1905: Russo-Japanese war ended in Japanese victory. Minor pogrom ensued in Russia. More Jews fled to Manchuria, now freer from Tsarist influence. Israel Zangwill formed the Jewish Territorialist Organisation. Zion (Xian) was one of the possible destinations.
1910: The Manchurian Jewish communities numbered some 300,000 Jews mainly of Russian Jewry, with major settlements in Harbin, Changqun and Port Arthur; in Shanghai and Canton there were some ten thousand Jews in each city; in Xian, a burgeoning Jewish community of some 50,000.
1911: Year of the Chinese revolution. A number of Jews supplied Dr. Sun Yat-Sen's revolutionaries with funds and arms.
1912: Yuan Shikai succeeded Sun as President of the Republic of China
1915: Yuan Shikai crowned himself Emperor, triggering revolt all across China. Yuan died shortly after. Period of the Warlords began in China. Jews kept to themselves, while maintaining a reputation of educators and philantropists, as well as reliable merchants.
1917: China joined the Great War on the side of the allies
1919: Treaty of Versailles revealed that China would not be rewarded for her efforts, and that Germany's concessions in China were to be given to Japan instead. This triggered protests all across China. There were some rumbling amongst intellectual that the Jews did better in 1901.
1925: Death of Dr. Sun, Chiang Kai-Shek succeeded.
1927: Kuomintang purgeg the Chinese Communist Party
1928: Mukden Incident, a railway 'accident' arranged by Japan killed the warlord of Manchuria. Soviet Union established the Jewish Autonomous Oblast around Birobidzhan, on the border with Manchuria. A number of Jews, with tacit Soviet permission, went over the border to Manchuria.
1931: Japanese invaded Manchuria, swiftly taking over the entire territory. Tension between the Japanese occupation troops and the local Jews, who controlled a majority of the railway and mining assets, as well as a good portion of lumber mills and much good agricultural land. Japan established Manchukuo, the puppet state, headed by the ex-Emperor of China, Puyi
1932: Puyi issued edict confiscating an amount of Jewish property. This aroused sympathy for the Jews amongst the Chinese.
1933: Nazi Party came to power in China. Jewish emigration from Germany increased. Due to Western nation's reluctance to accept Jewish refugee/ emigrants, many moved to the by-now burgeoning Jewish communities in China, now numbering almost a million and a half.
1935: Due to increased Japanese colonisation of Manchuria, tension finally came to a boil as Japanese colonists with the support of the Kwantung Army and Puyi's Manchukuo authorities seized much land belonging to the Jews. A number of Manchurian Jews migrated to other parts of China, most notably Xian (Zion)
1937: The second Sino-Japanese war began. Rape of Nanking. The defiant Jewish Quarter harboured almost twenty thousand Chinese from the Japanese, leading to various incidents in which Jews were murdered and Jewish property ransacked.
1938: Emigree Jewish engineers and technicians in China greatly boostered China's war effort. In Xian (Zion), a Jewish volunteer brigade between refugees from Nanking and Manchuria and local Jews formed.

-And I have to go read up on the Second Sino-Japanese War. For a conflict almost as bloody as the Great Patriotic War, there is astonishingly few Western sources about it..
*There are a number of earthern pyramids in Xian, this is actually true

 

[DMS]

Great timeline, though obviously not going

to get you a Jewish majority, unless Mao converts.

Very nice thought about China harboring Jews fleeing European persecution then Jews protecting some Chinese in Nanjing and helping the war effort. The Jews, after all, are the Chinese of Europe.

As a personal note, I think you have detoured my grandfather into China, which is handy for me since I've already studied Putonghua.

 

[NFR]

to get you a Jewish majority, unless Mao converts.

Very nice thought about China harboring Jews fleeing European persecution then Jews protecting some Chinese in Nanjing and helping the war effort. The Jews, after all, are the Chinese of Europe.

As a personal note, I think you have detoured my grandfather into China, which is handy for me since I've already studied Putonghua.

Thank you. I have plans for Mao, as it happens, but I have to do more reserach on the second Sino-Japanese war and brooding to find an optimal way to have a 'Jewish' China by 2005. Expect a very different world indeed.