Jesus is never crucified?

[A Random Person]

The Cruxifixion was inevitable, this is my area of study and there is three plausable solutions.

1) OTL - Jesus is arrested by the Sanhedrin and turned over to the romans, who HAD to cruxify him as per law.
(only two types of executions for non-prisoners and non-slaves, if you were a roman citizen you would be beheaded, if you were not as in this case it was a cruxifixion)

2) The Sanhedrin in ignores Jesus until the romans are threatening a massicre (as per all other messiah claims, such as "the Egyptian" and Bar Kochbah) then they had to either
A) turn Jesus over at that point in which he would be cruxified.
B) keep ignoring until the Romans attack in which they cruxify the "leader" (Jesus) as a show of power.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jn 11:48&version=31


P.S. I know my spelling is horrible, I am very prone to typos

 

[carlton_bach]

The Cruxifixion was inevitable, this is my area of study and there is three plausable solutions.

1) OTL - Jesus is arrested by the Sanhedrin and turned over to the romans, who HAD to cruxify him as per law.
(only two types of executions for non-prisoners and non-slaves, if you were a roman citizen you would be beheaded, if you were not as in this case it was a cruxifixion)

Roman law does not mandate crucifixion. Pilate did not have the option of beheading (except informally) and there are no specific punishments mandated for fomenting rebellion, but there was always the option to sentence ad metallis, ad bestias, and, of course, a noncapital count. Pilate was not constrained by any minimum sentencing guideline.

2) The Sanhedrin in ignores Jesus until the romans are threatening a massicre (as per all other messiah claims, such as "the Egyptian" and Bar Kochbah) then they had to either

Why would the Sanhedrin choose to protect Jesus in the first place? If we can trust the Gospel narrative, they were actively trying to capture him. Of course, trusting the Gospel narrative on these issues is iffy, but still, it's the only material on that point we have. Even if the Sanhedrin's role in the crucifixion is politically slanted there, though, why reason would they have to shield a nonorthodox, rogue preacher?

 

[bernooch]

I'm sorry, but that is not possible. God already had a plan layed out and would have seen this forecoming and done something about. Jesus was destined to die on the cross.

OMG..I'm being nice...see I am biting my tongue....Pre-destination is SOOOOOOOOOO Calvinistic...see that was kind of nice....

 

[bernooch]

DUDE, Jesus was High ...

Well, at Least Pot Would Be Legal ...

As for HUCK, your Position Presumes Information Not in Evidence, Namely that Jesus was in Fact Divine!

Thank goodness....intelligence still can be found if you look under enough rocks....

 

[bernooch]

This question is more theological than historical. The Jesus of the gospels has never even been historically verified. I am of the opinion that Christianity is based upon a mythological Christ. Therefore to debate whether he was crucified or not really is not relevant.

applaud applaud applaud...could you be referring to the Mythological Christ invented by Paul.....I think that Josephus and a couple other sources are enough to establish the Yeshua Bar Joseph was historical...just don't believe you can use the Gospels, Acts and Pauline letters to establish and spout his divinity

 

[bernooch]

It's a legitimate thing to consider. I don't particularly feel comfortable with discussions about religious figures - especially the dozen or so WI no Muhammed threads - but there's no real reason for people not to consider them calmly, tastefully and politely. If accepting - for the sake of an intellectual exercise - the possibility of the existence of the Biblical Jesus is not to your taste, then you could consider - since you seem to hold that the Biblical account was fictionalised from pre-existing sources - that this debate is about how the world would be if the account had been fictionalised in a different manner.

Wow...this I like....good job on how we can all live in harmony

Sorry...I am not very adept at multiple-quoting...please forgive me my sins of posting faux-pas

 

[Twin City Lines]

But God is all powerful, if He had a different course in mind it would have gone a different way. I, personally just like AH because, I like history. I think we choose how we live, but either way it works in God's favor.

This is one of the reasons I consider Christianity to be illogical. If God preordained everything, how can there be such a thing as "sin"? For example, if God's plan was for someone to be murdered for some cosmic purpose, how can the murderer be in violation of God's law? It would seem to me that everyone, no matter what they do, is doing God's work in such a preordained world....

 

[Mike Stearns]

1) OTL - Jesus is arrested by the Sanhedrin and turned over to the romans, who HAD to cruxify him as per law.

Sorry, but no. Pilate didn't HAVE to crucify Christ and in fact tried to avoid doing so. The Jews had a Passover tradition whereby a criminal would be released. Pilate tried to use this loophole to set Jesus free, exepct that the Pharisees didn't want Jesus to live. The only reason Pilate order Jesus to be crucified was because he was afraid that the Jews would riot if he didn't.

In answer to Twin City Lines' question, sin exists because God gave man the ability to choose.

 

[Twin City Lines]

Sorry, but no. Pilate didn't HAVE to crucify Christ and in fact tried to avoid doing so. The Jews had a Passover tradition whereby a criminal would be released. Pilate tried to use this loophole to set Jesus free, exepct that the Pharisees didn't want Jesus to live. The only reason Pilate order Jesus to be crucified was because he was afraid that the Jews would riot if he didn't.

In answer to Twin City Lines' question, sin exists because God gave man the ability to choose.

OK but if man's choices are supposedly "according to God's Plan" how can they be sins? Are you saying that fulfilling God's Plan is a sin?

 

[Andrew Hudson]

According to the Koran he wasn't. Judas was cruxified in error. However assuming the New Testament is correct and he was cruxified would history have been different? Probably yes as it is unlikely that Christianity would have developed as a major religion. However a lot depends on how mucu influence he had as a teacher and whether he was involved in resistance to Roman rule. Islam could still have become a major religion as it was largely dervied from a Judaic root it would just have meant either one prophet less or Jesus fulfilling the role the Moslems believe he fulfilled anyway.

Europe? I don't know much about the Roman religions but Northern Europe would have probably continued to worship Nordic Gods

 

[A Random Person]

This is one of the reasons I consider Christianity to be illogical. If God preordained everything, how can there be such a thing as "sin"? For example, if God's plan was for someone to be murdered for some cosmic purpose, how can the murderer be in violation of God's law? It would seem to me that everyone, no matter what they do, is doing God's work in such a preordained world....

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” -Stuart Chase

 

[HJ Tulp]

So, a Warrior Jesus? That would indeed have very interesting implications. Does he get killed in battle? Could this cause an early demise for the Roman Empire at the hands of Judeo-Christian rebels? This could be very interesting...

Not very consistent with his "turn the other cheek" philosophy, but interesting nonetheless...

Actually, there are sources that suggest that Jezus was actually a minor rebel leader that was taken prisoner after a failed attack on Jeruzalem.

 

[TIMER]

If Jesus wasn't crucified instead freed by Pilot, He probably would have taken his wife Marys advice and moved to southern Gaul and raised his children. When he finally died of old age his father would have told him that he was a screw up, that he was supposed to die for peoples sin not to live.

As a side thought when He got to Gaul he could have made a good living by buying a piece of land with a steady water supply and going into the wine business.

 

[Hashasheen]

If Jesus wasn't crucified instead freed by Pilot, He probably would have taken his wife Marys advice and moved to southern Gaul and raised his children. When he finally died of old age his father would have told him that he was a screw up, that he was supposed to die for peoples sin not to live.

As a side thought when He got to Gaul he could have made a good living by buying a piece of land with a steady water supply and going into the wine business.

is this a joke? if so, not a very good one.

 

[Lord Grattan]

If Jesus wasn't crucified instead freed by Pilot, He probably would have taken his wife Marys advice and moved to southern Gaul and raised his children. When he finally died of old age his father would have told him that he was a screw up, that he was supposed to die for peoples sin not to live.

As a side thought when He got to Gaul he could have made a good living by buying a piece of land with a steady water supply and going into the wine business.

Your humor (?) is in poor taste.

 

[TIMER]

Your humor (?) is in poor taste.

Which part ? That he might have been married ? That he might have had children ? Or that he might have been the son of God ?

Various numbers of people around the world believe one or more of these things and all of them have the same level of provability.

The thought that he might make a living in the wine business wasn't that good a joke but also not in that bad of taste.

If you mean the part where God would be upset that his plan didn't work out the way he intended it to the bible seems to indicate that in the past when things didn't go his way he got rather pissy IE: expulsion from garden, floods, plagues, pillars of salt etc. I thought that the reaction I described for him was quite moderate in the circumstances.


So which part of my post was most upsetting?