Jefferson's Anti-Slavery Crisis: Alternate History of the U.S.

Final fate of "British Columbia" by the end

  • 1. Eventual independence

    Votes: 18 51.4%
  • 2. Eventual merging with the US

    Votes: 17 48.6%
  • 3. Something else (post in thread for more details)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .
Any really interesting what-ifs for Canada 1776-1837? I'd like to hear input. Also, where do you get maps?
Sorry that the Canada chapter is delayed again. I have a problem because of essays due Thursday and Monday.
 
Any really interesting what-ifs for Canada 1776-1837? I'd like to hear input. Also, where do you get maps?
Sorry that the Canada chapter is delayed again. I have a problem because of essays due Thursday and Monday.
How independent is this Canada going to be? Are they going to get a deal with Britain or will they have their own revolution? It makes sense that, since they got the more abolitionist-minded Loyalists, that they'd be leery of Britain pandering to the slave-owning Columbians.
 
How independent is this Canada going to be? Are they going to get a deal with Britain or will they have their own revolution? It makes sense that, since they got the more abolitionist-minded Loyalists, that they'd be leery of Britain pandering to the slave-owning Columbians.
OTL there were revolts in 1837 over governance concerns (led by Mackenzie); they failed miserably, but did get some reforms passed. Suspicions of Britain pandering to the slave-owning Columbians (even though that's largely stopped by the 1830s) was enough to breed even worse discontent later. Thank you.
 
OTL there were revolts in 1837 over governance concerns (led by Mackenzie); they failed miserably, but did get some reforms passed. Suspicions of Britain pandering to the slave-owning Columbians (even though that's largely stopped by the 1830s) was enough to breed even worse discontent later. Thank you.
While the suspicions about Britain pandering to slavers didn't cause a rebellion it makes sense that it'd lead to stronger discontent later. It was likely enough to create a movement of people sceptical of remaining under British rule. They'd likely be looking for other reasons to declare independence later. And when an organized group of people are looking for a reason/excuse to do something they usually find it. And with America right by Canada, and with the American-Canadian border likely a sieve where arms and supplies can get through, the second rebellion would likely succeed. It all depends on whether the new independent Canada would model their government on America's government directly or create their own that's merely inspired by it.
 
While the suspicions about Britain pandering to slavers didn't cause a rebellion it makes sense that it'd lead to stronger discontent later. It was likely enough to create a movement of people sceptical of remaining under British rule. They'd likely be looking for other reasons to declare independence later. And when an organized group of people are looking for a reason/excuse to do something they usually find it. And with America right by Canada, and with the American-Canadian border likely a sieve where arms and supplies can get through, the second rebellion would likely succeed. It all depends on whether the new independent Canada would model their government on America's government directly or create their own that's merely inspired by it.
Thank you. Stay tuned for the update. I'd say government concerns + suspicions about pandering are going to be enough to cause an update. Sieve border would also help, and second rebellion would also happen. Stay tuned for what's next. Thanks.
 
Thank you. Stay tuned for the update. I'd say government concerns + suspicions about pandering are going to be enough to cause an update. Sieve border would also help, and second rebellion would also happen. Stay tuned for what's next. Thanks.
I'm definitely looking forward to it. The fomenting dissent against the Brits and the fact that there's no way the Brits can seal the border imply that Britain won't be holding onto Canada ITTL. There are four choices for Canada's TTL capital. Namely Kingston, Montreal, Toronto*, and Quebec City. The OTL capital of Ottawa is likely a nowhere town in TTL.

*Likely still called York due to no War of 1812.
 
I'm definitely looking forward to it. The fomenting dissent against the Brits and the fact that there's no way the Brits can seal the border imply that Britain won't be holding onto Canada ITTL. There are four choices for Canada's TTL capital. Namely Kingston, Montreal, Toronto*, and Quebec City. The OTL capital of Ottawa is likely a nowhere town in TTL.

*Likely still called York due to no War of 1812.
Right. And no War of 1812 means less Canada-US animosity for that time period due to a botched US attack on Canada in the War of 1812.
 
I seem to have run into a problem. I don't know how to write Canada.
I'm thinking that the Revolts of 1837-38 succeed (partially due to American intervention?) and Canada becomes independent far earlier. Now whether it stays independent... I don't know where to go tbh. Tips for writing Canada? Any Canada experts?
And I originally had Taney in "British Columbia" and get hanged for high treason.
Jeff Davis... don't know what to do with him just yet. Lee/Lincoln friendship seems more likely at this point.
 
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Presidents Roadmap
Presidents since Washington
F = Federalist. D-R = Democratic-Republican
1796-1804 Thomas Jefferson (D-R) Achievements: pioneered "Jeffersonian Democracy" which emphasized civil rights for all and equal rights. Also engineered the purchase of large amounts of western land from Spain and compromises/treaties with Great Britain. Avoided close call with France. (Democratic-Republican party)
1804-1808 John Adams (F). Achievements: Buildup of the U.S. Army and Navy, and also of industrialization. (Federalist)
1808-1816 James Madison (D-R) Achievements: Continued buildup of the U.S. Army and Navy to avoid close call with Britain in 1812. Also continued progress on industrialization and greater acceptance of immigrants. (Democratic-Republican). It was during this period that westward expansion started to progress in earnest.
1816-1824 James Monroe (D-R). Achievements: At this point, the United States of America was not only expanding westward, but also reflected in on itself. The development of specifically "American" forms of writing and literature. Encouragement of "American" style to differentiate from Europeans. While not carried out, the idea of a "Monroe Doctrine" that had America protect other independent countries in the Americas foreshadows future developments. The United States also got out of the economic hole that characterized its early history due to paying for land, war debt, etc.
1824-1832 John Quincy Adams (F) Solved tariff policy in favor of protecting industries. Bank of the United States renewed.
1832-1840 Henry Clay (D-R). At this point, slavery was abolished in 1836 as per the U.S. Constitution. The development of the "American system"--unique American economic practices as well. Volunteers sent to the "Canada Rebellion" but no direct U.S. involvement due to avoiding war with Britain. The Panic of 1837 caused problems for Clay (economic downturn that he was unable to solve) and cast a shadow over his second term. 1837 saw beginning of women's suffrage movement although Clay didn't take it seriously. Poor leadership of Clay causes Democratic-Republicans to divide.
Note: Maine/Massachusetts went separate due to Missouri Compromise. In this TL, the upper part of Maine gets enough people to become a new state (and some form of Missouri compromise does occur).

Will be continued
 
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I just started reading this--some interesting possibilities here. I just read that Maine became a seperate state. One question: What was the reason for Maine and Massachusetts going their separate ways
 
Having enough people to become a state is only a tiny part of it. The state has to chose to be split--unless that particular part of the constitution has changed, the federal government can't break up a state without its consent.
 
Having enough people to become a state is only a tiny part of it. The state has to chose to be split--unless that particular part of the constitution has changed, the federal government can't break up a state without its consent.
That too. I'll also make a point where the state consented to that. Probably some form of Missouri compromise at this point.
 
Traisn might become more common earlier; perhaps a port on the /west Coast in Oregon (Coos Bay) becomes a major city TTL that wasn't OTL. OTL's Washignton state still available, too. What would be the Transcontinental Railroad might be done a decade ahead of schedule with increased industrializatin and more immigrants moving there if California isn't American.

Likely a Democrat after Adams and Caly for 2 terms each. I wonder who the President who champions the poor, rural people would be TTL with Jackson (and Polk) down in Columbia - perhaps Van BUren butg he was from New York... then again thigns have changed enough it could be Clay a little, being from Kentucky, and more gradual move toward universal suffrage everywhere, etc..

John McLean is another interesting fellow, don't know how long you're letting OTL people live but he was a justice OTL who dissented in the Dred Scott decision and was a Democrat for quite a while before changing due to Southerners getting more powerful in the Democratic Party. He's from Ohio and I always thought would make a good President in a timeline like this where slavery dies out slowly.
 
Any good
Traisn might become more common earlier; perhaps a port on the /west Coast in Oregon (Coos Bay) becomes a major city TTL that wasn't OTL. OTL's Washignton state still available, too. What would be the Transcontinental Railroad might be done a decade ahead of schedule with increased industrializatin and more immigrants moving there if California isn't American.

Likely a Democrat after Adams and Caly for 2 terms each. I wonder who the President who champions the poor, rural people would be TTL with Jackson (and Polk) down in Columbia - perhaps Van BUren butg he was from New York... then again thigns have changed enough it could be Clay a little, being from Kentucky, and more gradual move toward universal suffrage everywhere, etc..

John McLean is another interesting fellow, don't know how long you're letting OTL people live but he was a justice OTL who dissented in the Dred Scott decision and was a Democrat for quite a while before changing due to Southerners getting more powerful in the Democratic Party. He's from Ohio and I always thought would make a good President in a timeline like this where slavery dies out slowly.
Calhoun went south too (OTL wasn't he associated with South Carolina at various points?). Democrat after Adams. Might add more info about immigration and its backlash. I'd go check out McLean but don't know what time to put him there. President that champions poor rural people, I'd say either Clay or perhaps Van Buren (although a kind of populist movement would occur later.) Thanks for the advice.
Trans-Continental Railroad? It might actually happen earlier due to Washington State earlier? That sounds interesting. And yes, there will probably be a Mexican-American war in this timeline.
 
Fears, Hopes, Personality of the United States (N-6)
I asked Murica1776 (famous for further developing CoCaro on the Expanded Universe thread of What Madness Is This) on country development. The response was instructive. Hope, fears, personality, neighbors, traumatic events and how they affected the country, politics, and economics are very important. So here's my take.

Database Sample
N-6 United States

Darkest Fear: Not living up to the ideals of its founding fathers/Becoming a bastardization of what it was intended to be. As a result, education sector has large amounts of “Civics Education” on the virtues of the founders and the importance of the American ideals. This is an important part of the “Education Revolution”. Another fear is fear of being invaded/conquered so there is a large military and fort buildup to prevent this.

Hopes and Dreams: The great hope is to live up to what the U.S. Constitution says, and to make America a beacon for other nations. The American Dream forms early and many politicians want to make this a reality.

Personality: At this point, still very idealistic. Courageous, almost. Frontier areas are very free-spirited. Civil rights will become important after 1836 after the end of slavery and the retooling of movements for other equal rights such as the end of urban discrimination on immigrants and women’s suffrage. There is also going to be a movement called “Exporting the Revolution” that, while not officially endorsed by the U.S. government, is partially responsible for the success of the Canadian Rebellion and the formation of the U.S. sphere of influence.

Resources/Economics: Still mostly agricultural (and that wouldn't change until 1870s). Wheat, corn, and other food crops in the west, more industry to the east (especially New England). Textile industry very important at this stage, and mining in the west will soon become important. Cattle ranching leads to the rise of great meatpacking industries (and eventually a book that details the abuses of the various meatpacking industries).

Leadership/Politics. 2-party system in place--know nothings attempted to become a 3rd party but dwindled over time. They were strongest in late 1820s early 1830s before dwindling after 1836 due to people thinking they were dangerous. Hasn't been a downright terrible President (although Clay 2nd term isn't good since he couldn't dig out of an economic panic). Most of the “Bad” presidents are/will be bad because they just coasted on their predecessors.

Traumatic event in the nation's past--Ga, NC, SC "chickening out" of the Continental Congress. This causes great enmity between North and South (which trade has only partially mitigated). There isn’t a desire to retake the south due to Great Britain, but most of the people (other than big industrialists) hate their counterparts across the border. Also a great fury at any social injustice, not just slavery, to make the Founders proud.

Neighbors: Aforementioned southern states (hated--they became British Columbia), Canada (which had 1837-38 rebellions modeled after the American Revolution). US attempts to stay neutral in European politics although some US traders do sympathize with their French and British counterparts trying to get trade in China. This did not deter American volunteers from trying to spread democracy in rebellions in Europe. This action also caused the British Empire to be suspicious of the United States of America in the late 19th Century.

Battles: Barbary Battles justified the growth of the US Navy. Besides American Revolution, many volunteers would stream into Canada (but no official involvement) to support the Canadian rebellion. Native American war/Westward expansion, but those are not particularly difficult opponents. There will be a Mexican war as westward expansion continues. This will lead to a US win and further expansion. After the victory in Mexico, there were some final Native American Wars, as well as some American volunteers helping in rebellions to spread democracy. The "Dreadful War" is arriving, and it will cause massive changes for the U.S.
 
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A Further note about the differences between the American Dream and the American Reality. OTL, the differences are often stark. Something that happened in my mind (when designing a world where the Americans have succeeded in making the American Dream the American Reality.)
Here's what I'm often listening to when writing this timeline. Captain America's Themes (Marvel v. Capcom)

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