I'll let this poll up for a while as I'm at a stopping point otherwise in developiing my timeline idea, and while I knwo what I'd like to happen short-term, I will be busy with other thigns, including publicizing my stuff at lulu.com and hopefully selling some, so I'm not going to start posting my TL idea till I know I can maintain it for a while; I don't want to be starting and then stopping. (I *might* even get some clients, you never know
)
Anyway, here's what's up so far. Jefferson in '96 leads to his defeat in 1800 because he ignored a major diplomatic insult from the French (mostly narrative but I do have this from Adams: "If a lion pounced ojn you and said it was a Republican you would let it maul you!") and to his decreasing the size of the Navy while this happened - till the Federalist Congress in '99 overrode his veto on naval appropirations. Jefferson is redeemed by makign peace in 1800 with the French, but not in time to save him in the next election.
John Adams wins in 1800, and is not depressed becasue the time off leads to butterflies that let Charles live and this leads to butterflies that travel over to Europe and bring Denmark into the side of the British during the napoleonic Wars. Adsms buys Louisiana, but in a major butterfly, slavery is not allowed in the territory. (It's noted in a few discussions I searched for on here this this is quite possible, and that even Jefferson considered not allowing it, which surprised me.)
Adams is concerned about his age in 1804. He's also concerned about hamilton's ambition; but Hamilton has that affair anyway, though it's now nine-year-old news. (Still in peoples' minds, though. C. C. Pinckney would be a potential Southerner,a nd is Adams' Vice President (a 12th Amendment is passed early becasue of the 1796 debacle), but is he popular enough? Even if John Jay would be talkexd out of retirement to serve as Secretary of Stte,would he want the Presidency?
On the Democrat-Republican side, there's Burr and Madison. Burr has his own issues, being more interested in his own gain than that of the nation. Like Hamilton, his flaws may well be overblown by time and circumstance OTL, but still, he might have big troubles, and besides, Hamilton might just do anything to block him.
James Madison would be a Virginian like Jefferson and Washington (who lives, BTW, as Jefferson is visiting him for advice so he doesn't go out in that cold to tend to his farm on the day in question). He's also viewed as more pragmatic than Jefferson, and shows it by agreeing to name new Hampshire's Jonathan Langdon as his VP nominee. (Langdon declined in 1812 OTL, but 8 years younger he might accept.) And, even Jefferson, like Madison in OTL's 1812, now realizes there are some benefits to a stronger central government.
What I'd like to do in the 1805-09 adminsitration is have a short war with Spain/France over a variety of issues, as the U.S. and Britain will patch up their differences. Indeed, with the Danish on their side, the British might be more willing to stop impressment than before without a Federalist administration. And, Madison could still do it if there is enough war fervor. So, it doesn't have to be a Federalist.
I'd also like the Democratic-Republicans (and eventually Jacksonian Democracy) to win out, but it doens't have to be right away. The napoleonic Wars, as I read about them, are quite interesting and this may wind up becoming more of a European TL eventually, though I'm not sure.
It sure won't be tot he detail of some of the best ones on here. But, it'll be fun to think about.
That said, here is the poll after all that, and now I'll bow out for a bit and let the discussion begin. Because even if things go differently than my TL posits it (though what I have is from a number of discussions on here tht I've read) it is interesting to see.
BTW, I didn't include John marshall becasue actually, I think John Adams would appoint him here, since Chief Justice Ellsworth wouldn't get sick in 1800 since he isn't one of those trvelling to France, but he could easy be sick by 1804. However, I seriously considered that a John Marshall Presidency could be quite interesting. And, someone else might want to tackle that one.
If you think marshall woudl run even from the Supreme Court, then by all means answer "Other" and pick him.
Anyway, here's what's up so far. Jefferson in '96 leads to his defeat in 1800 because he ignored a major diplomatic insult from the French (mostly narrative but I do have this from Adams: "If a lion pounced ojn you and said it was a Republican you would let it maul you!") and to his decreasing the size of the Navy while this happened - till the Federalist Congress in '99 overrode his veto on naval appropirations. Jefferson is redeemed by makign peace in 1800 with the French, but not in time to save him in the next election.
John Adams wins in 1800, and is not depressed becasue the time off leads to butterflies that let Charles live and this leads to butterflies that travel over to Europe and bring Denmark into the side of the British during the napoleonic Wars. Adsms buys Louisiana, but in a major butterfly, slavery is not allowed in the territory. (It's noted in a few discussions I searched for on here this this is quite possible, and that even Jefferson considered not allowing it, which surprised me.)
Adams is concerned about his age in 1804. He's also concerned about hamilton's ambition; but Hamilton has that affair anyway, though it's now nine-year-old news. (Still in peoples' minds, though. C. C. Pinckney would be a potential Southerner,a nd is Adams' Vice President (a 12th Amendment is passed early becasue of the 1796 debacle), but is he popular enough? Even if John Jay would be talkexd out of retirement to serve as Secretary of Stte,would he want the Presidency?
On the Democrat-Republican side, there's Burr and Madison. Burr has his own issues, being more interested in his own gain than that of the nation. Like Hamilton, his flaws may well be overblown by time and circumstance OTL, but still, he might have big troubles, and besides, Hamilton might just do anything to block him.
James Madison would be a Virginian like Jefferson and Washington (who lives, BTW, as Jefferson is visiting him for advice so he doesn't go out in that cold to tend to his farm on the day in question). He's also viewed as more pragmatic than Jefferson, and shows it by agreeing to name new Hampshire's Jonathan Langdon as his VP nominee. (Langdon declined in 1812 OTL, but 8 years younger he might accept.) And, even Jefferson, like Madison in OTL's 1812, now realizes there are some benefits to a stronger central government.
What I'd like to do in the 1805-09 adminsitration is have a short war with Spain/France over a variety of issues, as the U.S. and Britain will patch up their differences. Indeed, with the Danish on their side, the British might be more willing to stop impressment than before without a Federalist administration. And, Madison could still do it if there is enough war fervor. So, it doesn't have to be a Federalist.
I'd also like the Democratic-Republicans (and eventually Jacksonian Democracy) to win out, but it doens't have to be right away. The napoleonic Wars, as I read about them, are quite interesting and this may wind up becoming more of a European TL eventually, though I'm not sure.
It sure won't be tot he detail of some of the best ones on here. But, it'll be fun to think about.
That said, here is the poll after all that, and now I'll bow out for a bit and let the discussion begin. Because even if things go differently than my TL posits it (though what I have is from a number of discussions on here tht I've read) it is interesting to see.
BTW, I didn't include John marshall becasue actually, I think John Adams would appoint him here, since Chief Justice Ellsworth wouldn't get sick in 1800 since he isn't one of those trvelling to France, but he could easy be sick by 1804. However, I seriously considered that a John Marshall Presidency could be quite interesting. And, someone else might want to tackle that one.
If you think marshall woudl run even from the Supreme Court, then by all means answer "Other" and pick him.