Jean III of France

During the tumult of the Hundred Years War, it seems there was also a mini-succession crisis in France; prior to Charles VII being Dauphin south of the Loire, two of his brothers had been heir to the throne, the first, Louis, having died in 1415, and the second, Jean, dying in 1417, either from being poisoned, or from an abscess of the neck.

The second Dauphin, Jean, seems to be an interesting figure as far as politics go. He was married to Jacqueline de Bavière, who would later marry the Duke of Brabant. It was this marriage that had brought the counties of Holland, Zeeland, and Hainault into Brabant IOTL, as she was sovereign of them. The Duke of Burgundy would play a game of cat and mouse with Jacqueline through the 1420s, it all ending with her holdings in the Lowlands being absorbed into the asendant Burgundian state.

So WI the Dauphin, Jean, had not died in 1417? It's unsure how he would handle the Hundred Years War, although presumably he would fight on as Charles VII did IOTL south of the Loire. However, assuming he has children with Jacqueline, this means a major part of the Lowlands will become part of the French crown within a generation. What effects might this have on the Hundred Years War? Of Burgundy? Would these added lands give the French crown the power to defeat the English even sooner, or might it just fumble things all together?
 
John might not end up operating out of the same territory. According to the wikipedia entry he was raised in the court of his father-in-law, Count William of Hainaut. William died the same year as John, so if John lives, then he will presumably become the new Count of Hainaut. With the Dauphin of France involved as the Count of Hainaut, the war of succession that broke out after William's death may be avoided.

With John in the north, he will be in conflict with his cousin, Duke John the Fearless of Burgundy. He will also be operating far away from his father and his younger brother's base in south of the Loire River. Once Charles VI dies, John inherits as John III, but his younger brother Charles is in the Loire Valley.

If John III stays in the north, then the Loire Valley probably falls to the English. This would probably foster a reconcillation between the Burgundians and John III, due to the now overwhelming power of the Engish.

It will also prove VERY interesting to the War of the Roses. France won't stay under English occupation for long. The English are too riven by rivalry with the regency of Henry VI, and the alliance of the French and Burgundians will prove powerful.
 
That is true, I forgot that they were raised together in Holland because prior to becoming heir to the throne, it was intended he would become the Count of Hainault and such outside of France. Being that he was raised in the north, it does make sense; yes, he probably would operate out of the north.

I imagine Charles VII would probably flee south with the Armagnac party, prior to the Treaty of Troyes he was somewhat bold, it was the defeats against Henry V and the Treaty that repudated him as heir to the throne that made him more meek. I also imagine he probably would still be protected by Yolande of Aragon, and thus married to Marie d'Anjou; even if his brother is Dauphin and King, he is still in line for the throne. If Jean lives, then it's unlikely that Charles becomes a meek character, living in the Loire valley and letting things play out. He probably would put up a fight.

I am contemplating a TL on this, with a little further research. There is also the question of brotherly feuds; in the late medieval era, the Valois Kings seemed to have problems with their brothers...Louis XI and Charles, the Duke of Guyenne come to mind. If the OTL Charles VII remains headstrong, will he intrigue against his brother for his own interests, or work together with Jean to throw out the English?
 
That is true, I forgot that they were raised together in Holland because prior to becoming heir to the throne, it was intended he would become the Count of Hainault and such outside of France. Being that he was raised in the north, it does make sense; yes, he probably would operate out of the north.

I imagine Charles VII would probably flee south with the Armagnac party, prior to the Treaty of Troyes he was somewhat bold, it was the defeats against Henry V and the Treaty that repudated him as heir to the throne that made him more meek. I also imagine he probably would still be protected by Yolande of Aragon, and thus married to Marie d'Anjou; even if his brother is Dauphin and King, he is still in line for the throne. If Jean lives, then it's unlikely that Charles becomes a meek character, living in the Loire valley and letting things play out. He probably would put up a fight.

I am contemplating a TL on this, with a little further research. There is also the question of brotherly feuds; in the late medieval era, the Valois Kings seemed to have problems with their brothers...Louis XI and Charles, the Duke of Guyenne come to mind. If the OTL Charles VII remains headstrong, will he intrigue against his brother for his own interests, or work together with Jean to throw out the English?

Charles in this TL is probably not going to be in conflict with his parents- namely he won't be disinherited following a military loss. If the conflicts with his parents happen anyway though, or if he ends up in conflict with his older brother, then Charles could become an English ally.

It could look like this: John, the Dauphin, rules his wife's possessions in the north, while his father and younger brother (Charles) operate in the Loire Valley. Charles' military defeats leads to his being disinherited, and he flees to Yolande's court. When their father dies, John becomes the uncrowned King of France, but Charles assumes control of the few remaining fortresses in the Loire Valley.

Conflicts between the brothers', specifically over John III's attempts to control the Loire fortresses with his own men sent from Hainaut, lead Charles to contact Henry VI's regency. The quick birth of two living sons to John III makes the conflict worse, since Charles no longer is the Dauphin. Charles is able to strike a deal with the English, getting peace and some territory restored to him, in return for repudiating his brother and recognizing his nephew, Henry VI of England, as the King of France.

John III and the Burgundians, along with the new military commander Joan of Arc, begin to push the English back. Charles becomes the biggest champion of the English cause in France, leading English armies in a series of victories that staunch the flow of French victories.

Charles' victories, along with his close blood relationship to Henry VI and the fact he was a French royal who accepted English rule, rapidly make him a powerful force in English court politics. His victories strengthen the pro-war faction in court, and he becomes a close ally of Richard, Duke of Bedford another of Henry VI's uncles, and the Regent of France.
 
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