Japanese victory in the pacific war - is it really ASB?

[M79]

 

[Athelstane]

So by the afternoon any landing force would be opposed by 2 full divisions digging in at previously surveyed positions. Any landing would have to be conducted in several waves and each in turn would have been decimated by dug in troops and artillery firing from pre-sighted positions. What the USMC ran into at Tarawa would be a walk in the park compared to this.

What's more, the big 12" batteres at Fort DeRussy and Fort Hase had the range to hit literally any target on the island - and the same would have been true of the battleships at Pearl still afloat (or in Nevada's case, grounded). They, too, could serve as platforms for heavy battery fire if the need was urgent.

 

[M79]

What's more, the big 12" batteres at Fort DeRussy and Fort Hase had the range to hit literally any target on the island - and the same would have been true of the battleships at Pearl still afloat (or in Nevada's case, grounded). They, too, could serve as platforms for heavy battery fire if the need was urgent.

Did the coastal batteries at Hawaii's Fort DeRussy have 360 degree firing capacity? I thought it was about a 145 degree firing arc facing Honolulu Harbor?

 

[Coley]

The way the Japanese military treated civilians and p.o.w.s,invading Hawaii during negotiations and all the deaths on December 7,no way do you get anti-war movement,if anything you eventually get a more vicious war,if possible.You might even need the concentration camps for ethnic Japanese just to save them from pogroms.

 

[Athelstane]

Did the coastal batteries at Hawaii's Fort DeRussy have 360 degree firing capacity? I thought it was about a 145 degree firing arc facing Honolulu Harbor?

I thought it was a 360 arc, but with only protection on the seaward since.

I have a volume on coastal artillery emplacements around here somewhere, but it's almost certainly packed up in the basement. If I can dig it out, I'll check it.

 

[M79]

I thought it was a 360 arc, but with only protection on the seaward since.

I have a volume on coastal artillery emplacements around here somewhere, but it's almost certainly packed up in the basement. If I can dig it out, I'll check it.

[OOC]Visit the museum at old Fort DeRussy in Hawaii (there are 5 Forts named DeRussy in the US!) if you get the chance, it's almost literally next door to the dedicated armed forces hotel (Hale Koa?) in Waikiki. For extra kicks, if you are physically able to, take the earliest bus you can to Diamond Head and climb the mountain in time to watch the sun rise - there were several folks doing this while I was there. At the top is an old artillery base that can be explored in limited fashion. Walking back to Waikiki afterwards is feasible and burned off lots of extra calories from places like Marukame Udon which is DEFINITELY worth a visit (https://places.singleplatform.com/marukame-udon/menu?ref=Microsoft). Tiring but definitely worth it![/OOC]

 

[Athelstane]

You know, I think we've all been overlooking the real reason why a Japanese victory in the Pacific would have been ASB: Gurkhas.

On 12/13 May 1945 at Taungdaw, Burma, Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung was manning the most forward post of his platoon which bore the brunt of an attack by at least 200 of the Japanese enemy. He hurled back two hand grenades which had fallen on his trench, but the third exploded in his right hand after he attempted to throw it back, blowing off his fingers, shattering his arm and severely wounding him in the face, body and right leg. His two comrades were also badly wounded but the rifleman, now alone and disregarding his wounds, loaded and fired his rifle with his left hand for four hours (all while he screamed "Come and fight a Gurkha!"), calmly waiting for each attack which he met with fire at point blank range.​

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...Of the 87 enemy dead counted in the immediate vicinity of the Company locality, 31 lay in front of this Rifleman's section, the key to the whole position. Had the enemy succeeded in over-running and occupying Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung's trench, the whole of the reverse slope position would have been completely dominated and turned.​

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This Rifleman, by his magnificent example, so inspired his comrades to resist the enemy to the last, that, although surrounded and cut off for three days and two nights, they held and smashed every attack.​

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His outstanding gallantry and extreme devotion to duty, in the face of almost overwhelming odds, were the main factors in the defeat of the enemy.​

-- Gazette Citation for Lachhiman Gurung, 4th Battalion, 8th Gurkha Rifles, Indian Army​

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[Some Bloke]

Some bloke who went to both the US Naval War College and the Imperial Japanese Naval Academy said this about what would need to happen for a Japanese victory.

"Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it is not enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House. I wonder if our politicians, among whom armchair arguments about war are being glibly bandied about in the name of state politics, have confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices "

I don't remember ever saying this.

 

[Pelranius]

The way the Japanese military treated civilians and p.o.w.s,invading Hawaii during negotiations and all the deaths on December 7,no way do you get anti-war movement,if anything you eventually get a more vicious war,if possible.You might even need the concentration camps for ethnic Japanese just to save them from pogroms.

Given Imperial Japanese views towards Japanese Americans, the later are going to resist very violently once the Tokko decide to start policing "the wayward children of Yamato for degenerate western ideas".