japanese use wmds at pearl

Bioweapon used against Pearl Harbour ?

Another take on Jap WMDs at Pearl Harbour: WI they used a bioweapon engineered by those Unit 731 bastards, as opposed to chemical weapons, against Pearl Harbour ? OTL, they actually did consider the employment of germ warfare on Bataan in 1942 and on Saipan in 1944, which were both rendered redundant by changing circumstances.

Also, there was Project SPHINX, during the planning for Op DOWNFALL, which would've entailed the USAAF saturating 20+ Japanese cities with poison gas had the atom bombs not been used...

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...joHSAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1
 
For anybody interested, time to trot to the Library [or Amazon.com]:

Factories of Death: Japanese Biological Warfare, 1932-45 and the American cover-up by Sheldon Harris.

Use of chem/bio weapons were possible, but simply didn't have the destructive power required to immobilize the American Fleet. I think the Japanese had intended to return to Pearl at a later point to set-up shop. Can't do that easy with Plague around, no?
 
Another take on Jap WMDs at Pearl Harbour: WI they used a bioweapon engineered by those Unit 731 bastards, as opposed to chemical weapons, against Pearl Harbour ? OTL, they actually did consider the employment of germ warfare on Bataan in 1942 and on Saipan in 1944, which were both rendered redundant by changing circumstances.

Also, there was Project SPHINX, during the planning for Op DOWNFALL, which would've entailed the USAAF saturating 20+ Japanese cities with poison gas had the atom bombs not been used...

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...joHSAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1



this was what i had in mind... like i said they had vast experiance with wmd's and had used them china its just that conventional weapons where just as effective in china but im wondering if chem and bio weapons lingering in and around pearl could render the base contamined and unsafe for use for critical periods of time
 
this was what i had in mind... like i said they had vast experiance with wmd's and had used them china its just that conventional weapons where just as effective in china but im wondering if chem and bio weapons lingering in and around pearl could render the base contamined and unsafe for use for critical periods of time

Not really. You'd need to use a lot more than what they could drop in a mixed strike like that to do much in the way of lingering contamination, otherwise too easy to clean up.
 
perhaps they could augment it with some subs off shore firing gas shell

i think that might be a drop in the bucket though
 
perhaps they could augment it with some subs off shore firing gas shell

i think that might be a drop in the bucket though

I doubt that the japanese would be able to even get the sub within firing range of anything worth hitting. And regardless of the payload, the impact of a couple of shells from a submarine will be negligible. All in all, it would be throwing away a sub for no gain or practical purpose.
 
perhaps with a night strike (sub) which the japs where very good at... it could disrupt critical damage control efforts in the harbor (after the air strikes) and as well kill a lot of repair personel if conducted with some competence... again i wouldnt even point to this as a war changer but it could cause some nasty damage if handled correctly
 
And if the winds shift just a tiny bit? Posably thousands of civilian deaths. Japanese forces suffer even worse defeats and Japanese civilians are bombed not just with HE and incendiaries, but with mustard gas, sarin, chlorine, and tabin, among others. In OTL the atomic bomb ended WWII, but in ATL with WMDs used at Pearl...it could be just that much more hellish.
 
... i think the effect of the a bombs on japan is somewhat overstated they had a political collapse( that came from all the ongoing disasters not just nukes) and there was intense political pressure against the united states that nukes where "inhuman" conventional weapons where just as nasty against them (ie firebombing tokyo)

a bio/ chem strike would have some delayed effect at pearl
bear in mind that the evidence of plauge/anthrax bombs wouldnt be felt probably till a day or two later and could even be felt on the sailors on ships that left the harbor after the strikes
 
This scenario probably has a much worse outcome for the Japanese. Mustard gas is nasty stuff, but it and whatever other chemical weapons the Japanese had at the time aren't exactly tactical nukes.

If they attempt to use aerial chemical bombing in the Pearl Harbor strike, they're going to have to trade off some attacks on the ships and harbor facilities. Fewer ships get hit/sunk, and less damage to the fleet overall. The gas will certainly cause some casualties, but even in the best case, chemical attacks are prone to fail, or simply have extremely limited effectiveness.

Maybe if they expanded the aircraft contingent so that they could bomb the fuck out of the harbour with regular bombs, but carry on with a chemical bombing of Hawaiian civilian centres?
 
... i think the effect of the a bombs on japan is somewhat overstated they had a political collapse( that came from all the ongoing disasters not just nukes) and there was intense political pressure against the united states that nukes where "inhuman" conventional weapons where just as nasty against them (ie firebombing tokyo)

I'm not sure I understand: are you saying that the bombing of Japan was ineffective and the US was under pressure to stop it?

No and no. The AMerican bombings wrecked their industry and came within months of starving out the home islands before the bomb was even deployed. Hold off a few month for the effects to be felt, and Japan is kaput. And nobody in the US was protesting the extent of the bombing (Japan lost any hope of that with Pearl harbour). Use of chemical or Biological agents just reinforces that.

a bio/ chem strike would have some delayed effect at pearl
bear in mind that the evidence of plauge/anthrax bombs wouldnt be felt probably till a day or two later and could even be felt on the sailors on ships that left the harbor after the strikes

I have a feeling somebody will notice the clouds of gases descending over Oahu. As for the biological, you may have a point, but I dont see how this would be effective.
 
The British experiments in '41 dropping only small anthrax bombs on Gruinard Island off the coast of Scotland were highly successful. The island was contaminated until a massive decontamination effort resulted in the declaration that it was safe in 1990.
 
my point was that after the first two bombs where dropped and the news of radiation sickness starts to come out there will be intense pressure against the use of those weapons

the photos make for excellent propoganda... the war in europe was over by this point

some people have returned to their senses and will (with out immediate surrender) protest the use of such a cruel weapon

anthrax is highly lethal and doesnt need large doeses to contaminate just the harbor and base
 
the island of ohaoa or however you yanks spell it is extremely small at minimum the harbor can be totally contaminted if the strike is handled competently


taken from the wiki article on unit 731

Japanese scientists performed tests on prisoners with plague, cholera, smallpox, botulism and other diseases.[21] This research led to the development of the defoliation bacilli bomb and the flea bomb used to spread the bubonic plague.[22] Some of these bombs were designed with ceramic (porcelain) shells, an idea proposed by Ishii in 1938.
These bombs enabled Japanese soldiers to launch biological attacks, infecting agriculture, reservoirs, wells, and other areas with anthrax, plague-carrier fleas, typhoid, dysentery, cholera, and other deadly pathogens. During biological bomb experiments, scientists dressed in protective suits would examine the dying victims. Infected food supplies and clothing were dropped by airplane into areas of China not occupied by Japanese forces. In addition, poisoned food and candies were given out to unsuspecting victims and children, and the results examined.
 
Anthrax

I don't think the Japanese effort in Anthrax was very far along in 1941. And never as far along as the Brits got.

Plague isn't all that effective. I've heard it was pretty much a waste of resources in China.

Anthrax is far worse. FAR, far worse.

If Japan uses plague in '41 on Oahu, the US certainly drops the nastiest stuff they have in the Doolittle Raid and thereafter. Seeing as how the brits and Americans were sharing info, it wouldn't be long before anthrax and such completely made Japanese cities unliveable. Casualties in the millions. Tokyo and a couple of dozen other cities uninhabitable to this day. No post-war economic recovery for Japan. Rampant butterflyism throughout the COld War.
 
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